Today’s blog by Rocky Barker in the Idaho Statesman. Is it a bear or Bigfoot?
It is about an odd photo from Pennsylvania, said to be a “bigfoot.” Yet bigfoot has been called a creature (real or not) of the Pacific Northwest.
Interest the Sasquatch is on the rise, and a biologist at Idaho State University has written a scientific book about the evidence. Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science. By Dr. Jeff Meldrum. Forge Books. 2006.
There is also a layer on Google Earth that gives the location and description of sightings, footprints, etc. If there is such an animal, it clearly lives not just in the Pacific Northwest, but also the Northern and Middle Rocky Mountains, judging from the location of the reports on Google Earth, of which there are many.
Comments
I would recommend reading Dr. Meldrum’s book. It is fascinating and takes a hard, scientific look at the evidence which has never been done before. Most scientists have just dismissed the evidence out-of-hand without truly looking at it. While I have had no personal encounters with any firsthand evidence I have seen the plaster casts in his office and we have talked thouroughly about what they may represent. I can’t say that I’m convinced that such a creature exists but I find it difficult to see how someone could fabricate the evidence that he presented.
There is fossil evidence from China of a very, very large primate that existed there as recently as 200,000 years ago that could explain what people are claiming to see. Gigantopithecus. Could there be a remnant population of those creatures that lurks in North America? I don’t know, but I find it a very interesting subject that should be examined.
While the photo’s show something different I do think that they show a mangy bear. The size is right and the there were cubs at the site the same night just 28 minutes before the photo’s were taken.
http://www.bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/jacobs_photos.asp
It looks like Butch Otter to me…
Ralph, why even put such nonsense on your web site? Is it possible to believe that a mythical creation (without a breeding population) of this size could exist in a nation of 300 million where thousands of hunters annually go forth, & shoot everything in sight? Even the grizzly in cental Idaho could not survive the hunter from Tennessee, and Pennsylvania is a far more densly populated state than Idaho.
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I think it’s obvious this PA photo is a bear or some common animal, but I posted it because I bet people will want to discuss the issue in general.
Ralph
I wonder what would happen if someone did in fact shoot bigfoot! Would there be legal reprocussions?
Elkhunter
In Idaho they could just claim they thought it was a coyote and get off, like they do when they shoot wolves.
That bear must be seriously ill as it looks extremely emaciated. A healthy black bear soaking wet does not look that skinny.
Bad case of mange I would assume. It does not look healthy at all. DBH I forwarded the pics of the big grizz that was ran over to Ralph if you would like to see them. It was indeed a very large bear.
Elkhunter
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Yes, thanks. I sure liked seeing them. It really was a huge grizzly. I didn’t post them because they appeared to be copyrighted.
Ralph
To start with – I don’t believe in Bigfoot, and that picture sure looks like a black bear in really bad shape…
A couple things to think about regarding the survival possibilities of large mammals in the lower 48:
1) There have been some interesting hunter density experiments done with whitetail deer and hunters in fenced enclosures. The survivability (and seeming invisibility) of some of these deer is nothing short of incredible, even in the face of extremely high hunter density under controlled conditions. Through three decades in the woods, I’ve seen the same sort of elusiveness from other species, so I’ve no worries that any large animal (at least without a radio collar) can avoid the guns given enough room to run around. Incidentally, just because I carry a rifle into the woods, doesn’t mean I’m looking to shoot everything in sight. The anti-hunting posts that carry the brand of ignorance are getting really old.
2) Think about some of the truly rare animals in the lower 48 – Florida Panther, jaguar, woodland caribou, wolverine, etc… These critters get seen and photographed. They die on our highways or show up in traps. I think it’s much more likely that Ivorybilled Woodpeckers (or any small critter that flies) are still around than Colorado Griz. It’s the habitat requirements of the other large mammals that inescapably put them in contact with people. There’s really nowhere around here that has the country necessary to make such a thing possible over several decades, central ID or northern MT included.
It looks like a person in a halloween costume to me . . skinny hips and all.
I know bigfoot exists, I’ve been seeing one on TV in beef jerky commercials.
Oh!! , don’t forget the one that works for the Discovery Channel doing commercials. I wonder what he receives for compensation ??
Ralph— That was a good story and photo for Halloween !!
Dr. Meldrum is a serious scientist and I met him recently after finding a set of large human-like tracks in my hunting area of the Bitterroot Mountains of Montana. The tracks covered a very vast area and ended up dropping off into the North Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho. Either some crazy man (with size 15+ feet) was running around barefoot in the snow, at high elevation and in rocky terrain, for about 4 miles, or the tracks were made by some other “unknown” human-like animal.
There are parts of these mountains (Montana and Idaho border area) that no man has ever truly explored… it is vast and as wild as it gets. So, I guess I’m finding myself now wondering about the possibility of ‘bigfoot’.
I agree with Smoke Elser. I know Dr. Meldrum, and he, and now others, are studying these reports in a scientific way. He is also an expert in primate evolution and locomotion with a number of refereed papers (five) on the subject.
I read his book Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science, and talked with him. It has become easy to distinguish fakes from tracks that can’t easily be explained by rival hypotheses. He has discovered, and others confirmed, that well defined tracks show something with dermal ridges (like the lines on our fingers, hands, feet, and toes, — fingerprints).
If you launch Google Earth and enable the correct layers, reported bigfoot encounters are located. There are a lot of them. The recent ones are grouped into two classes, according to how good the data area. Investigators are sent out to interview the people who turn in the reports.
Many people have heard unusual vocalizations (the descriptions tend to match) and/or have seen hairy (furry) and large bipedal animals (descriptions are similar).
I see that former Yellowstone ranger, Bob Jackson, has now turned in some reports from his days in Yellowstone.
As for myself, I’ve never seen anything at all like this, heard, or smelled either (these close sightings often have a bad smell)
One women told me she saw a furry biped crossing Dickey Peak’s lower slope in the Lost River Range when she was elk hunting.
There is something out there. There needs to be careful investigation with competing hypothesis ruled out, such as people are seeing standing bears.
The major problems I find is why no discovered carcasses or skeletons?
I do think Dr. Meldrum has been discriminated by those in his department at my university, Idaho State University.
See http://www.bfro.net/
As to the legal consequences of killing a bigfoot, Skamania County is Washington has an Bigfoot protection ordinance on the books:
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/skamania-county-wa-bigfoot-ordinance/
“Therefore be it resolved that any premeditated, wilful and wanton slaying of such creature shall be deemed a felony punishable by a fine not to exceed Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000) and/or imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed Five (5) years.”
Just a brief follow up. Since first finding the tracks while guiding elk hunters, I’ve learned of numerous other tracks and sightings in the Bitterroot Mountains, Beaverhead Mountains and Sapphire Mountains of Western Montana and Eastern Idaho… most seemingly in the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness area, but many also across the Bitterroot Valley and into the Anaconda Pintlars. It seems however that most people–especially those offering professional wilderness/recreational services/govt park workers, etc– are fearful of reporting anything. I imagine this is why it took Bob Jackson so long to report the Yellowstone stuff. I honestly now think there is something behind all the native american/pioneer legends.
I’m sure others may have waited to tell what they “saw or heard” but its not my character to do so. I told friends and recorded in log books from the beginning …. just like I didn’t wait until I retired from govt. service to “whistle blow” on what was happening in Yellowstone.
I never saw the need to advertise to the outside world my sightings and sounds, not because I was concerned with others thinking I was a wacko… life was too short to inhibit , but because I was pretty encased in a Yellowstone backcountry world. I don’t know if this is why others with professions in the outdoors don’t “tell” of strange happenings but it was with me.
The word slowly got out and some people with interest in big foot would call me if they had the perseverance to wait till my months were up in the backcountry. They have been calling me off and on since the late “70’s. I guess the internet allows all this info to finally be pulled together and made available to everyone.
There was quite a bit of other first hand info on big foot expressed to me, by those using Yellowstones backcountry, until the fires of “88. After that it took till the late 90’s before the sounds and tracks came back.
Now does anyone want to know about blue lights moving in the mountains or “spot lights” from the sky lighting up a quarter mile area of mountain in front of one just like daytime with all the trees and rocks visible? One sees some fairly uncommon things while riding the trails at night.
Bob,
Thanks for the reply. Do you have any of your ‘bigfoot’ related experiences posted online somewhere? I’d love to read your accounts — directly from the horses mouth. I did read something once where someone was quoting youin regards to an actual physical sighting from horseback… animal fleeing and dodging into cover patches as it went. Just curious if you have your own online ‘blog’ or something like that.
Smoke,
I found Bob’s report marked with a yellow icon on Google Earth. It is in the Gallatin Range of the Park
Smoke, No blogs or anything like that.
My first “encounter” was on a ten day ski patrol in March ’74. There were four of us and in skiing to Heart Lake we crossed fresh tracks in some fairly firm snow. They sunk in 8-12″ and were maybe 18″ long. They lifted fairly straight up so were walking tracks. The distance between tracks was as far as we could stretch our legs in ski stride.
The second time was summer in the Gallatin in the mid 70’s. I was riding off trail on upper Fan Creek and came upon Nine Quarter Circle’s Kelsey and a guide. Their dudes were fishing down stream a couple of miles and as outfitters do they were out riding the country. We were talking and hear a loud, continuing “sound” coming from a mile or so upstream in Stellaria Creek. It kept going for a long time. A half to one minute where there was no break in volume. No catching a breath or anything. Sounded like a thousand elk going to their death or kinda Tarzan like with a mechanical bent to it. I bet one could have heard it 2 miles away.
The third time was later that fall coming out of Sportsman Lake cabin. I was packing two horses and on a narrow and fairly steep, wooded hillside trail path. … high elevation with subalpine fir thickets in a 80 acre meadow below me 30-40 yards down the slope. All at once my horses started blowing and flaring their nostrils a lot and …. all trying to break away. This means griz except I looked to where they looked and there was just a little deer at the edge of one of the closest fir thickets (fifty yards away) that look like a really big tepee. Couldn’t be a bear because there wouldn’t be a deer there. Held tight rein to get a longer look, but knew the slope was too steep to keep the horses on the trail and not start sliding down hill …. or get wrapped up in each other. In about ten seconds all at once the deer bolted and instantly this bear fur like thing came running out the other end of this thicket. only it was running on two legs. Maybe 6 1/2′ or a bit taller. Arms swung like a Neanderthal movie type thing. Didn’t run real fast. Thickets were 40-75 yds. apart and this thing would hit these things for cover zig zagging in and out till it reached the deep woods on the edge of this meadow. Never saw a bear run in any but a straight line. As a crow flies it was probably no more than a mile or so from where Nine Quarter Circle and I heard the long-loud sound. Bet if I’d been there a couple of minutes later I would have seen a bigfoot eating that deer. Fourth time was in the mid eighties, I think. I was riding up to Howell Creek cabin at dark on Fall boundary patrol. Howell is in Thorofare country, the SE corner of the Park and 9000′ elevation. Heard the same sound again upsteam no more than 200 yards away. Timed it this time—28 seconds. Very loud and strong!! Could find no tracks in the morning but then again it wasn’t country to see many tracks. Such is life in the backcountry.
Bob- Thanks for posting your sightings, I knew vaguely about them over the years hearing from other sources etc. I actullly met you in 87 in the Thoughofare where you were working. It was fall, I and friend did a 3-week trip down in there. You were joined by friend volunteer from the Forest Service. At Mariposa Lake you said you had to use your horse to pull our two packs back up in the tree after you checked them since they were so heavy. Yeah they were. Too damn heavy. Anyway… I have a former backcountry ranger friend in Yellowstone that had a sighting of sasquatch while walking off the ridge on Electric Peak looking to the S/SW to a small meadow below them(maye late 80’s early 90’s) . They saw a bi-ped very large black animal walking in the center of the field below them. They quickly viewed it through binoculars and were shocked to see that it was not a bear and definately on two feet. It reached the edge of the trees and they waited for it to walk out the other side but it never did. The night before this sighting at camp they had this horrible smell come wafting through camp that smelled like a combination of sex and something dead. I have also heard of a sighting by Bridge Bay Boat workers along the south shore of the lake one morning watching a bi-ped big black thing walking along the lake shore. Another friend has heard weird screams/crys on the Hebgen Lake Area. In the early 90s’ I found a 16 inch track in the mud up Buffalo Plateau. WE were the firstof the season to hike in there. It was across a muddy creek. I have my doubts on it beacuse it could be a “step-over”…i.e rear foot stepping into the forward foot of a bear. Not sure, since the mud was wet and loose and falling it, its not clear. I do have a photo of it somewhere. A retired Id. Game Warden friend of mine worked the Clearwater Lolo area for years as the main law enforcement person. HE has had way too many incidents from surrounding his camp and several were sceaming all around him, his horses were getting spooked so they got the hell out of there. Hes had other incidents from smells, rocks tossed at them and he even recorded many, many incidents from outfitters that he did game checks each hunting season etc. He knows a few outfitters that won’t even hunt in certain areas anymore due to being terrified back there. Oh gee, just thought of another incident. A friends parents use to have a cabin in the mtns. outside of redlodge in the 70s’. The mother heard something outside during the day and looked outside on the deck and this huge creature lumbered across the deck slowly and looked directly at her as it went by the window. She had a nervous breakdown after this incident and wouldnt go back to the cabin anymore. They ended up selling it not long after. Ive heard of many other stories mostly all second hand in yellowstone and along the east entrance towards Cody from Outfitters and tourist spotting something walking on two legs. Bob have you listened to any of the recorded sound recordings of supposed sasquatches that are on the one main BF website? They have several recordings you can listen too,wondered if they compare to any of your sounds you heard?
Norm
Oh- Sorry all didnt even comment on the sick bear photos. You can see with a simple photo shop program and zoom that photo in. What shows up really well are on the left side of picture the extended leg…look at the front…all claws can be clearly seen..faint white lines. Also the bears two eyes, two ears, nose including nostrils, the split between the two sides of the lip..i.e area under the nose is plain as day. the outline of the lips too. The inside tricep fold on the left side showing less hair. The heal of the bear is obvious…yes bears do have heals. The dark area to the left of the (right) side foot is actually a shadow, yes shadows do appear at night and are magnified with those tyes of cameras. The angle inward of the paws is obvious. The pelvis bone, rear rib, and top of sacrum area sticking out on this skinny bear. The supposed arm length if this was in the position that people say is a bigfoot would have the arms longer than the legs. The fact that the clear image of the face is all you need to see. How many monkeys have another face in the sides of their body? Mangy bear. But yes there is sasquatch just not that photo.
NM
I missed these photos. To what are you referring? Sorry to be out of the loop. Ralph
Thanks for the Google info, Ralph.
Bob,
Thanks. That’s some intreging info. I’m finding myself getting very interested in this topic. Amazing stuff.
Ralph- They are everwhere on the net worldwide now.
Check out the main page and scroll down part way till you see a cam shot of the mangy bear (?) and then click on it for a discussion details, there are hundreds of replys regarding them in the discussion forum too. Its endless. Ugh. click below
http://www.bfro.net
Norm, No, I have not heard recordings. And you guys were some of the very few to make it to this remote area of the Park.
I have had others describe the same sound. I always asked them to describe it before I related to them what I heard. Trail crew heard it once on Howell in the mid 90’s. A back packer in upper Lamar in the late 70’s 20’ from where he was sleeping in the woods (seasoned Yellowstone co. bus driver and avid back country user) an outfitter from Jackson hole (again Howell Ck.) and blister rust control crew in early ’70’s. Also trail crew of the early ’70’s. Both encountered “it” on Mt. Ck. And Howell Ck. Trail Crew was so spooked they packed horses up in the dark and rode 18 miles to Park point cabin on the Lake. Blister Rust crew kept lighting cherry bombs as they hustled ahead on foot. Blister Rust had come upon tracks right next to a freshly boned elk in the deep woods of Mt. Creek earlier that day to add to the suspense. Trail Crews was same day also. All hell broke loose that day I guess.
Two backpackers saw the footprints on Fish Hawk Pass (right South of Howell on upper Mt. Ck.) in the early 80’s.
All accounts I heard first hand. Lots of other accounts but second hand. I think it is kind of neat to have creatures out there…like griz and “this thing” that humbles us a bit.
Bob- Thanks for posting. I wasnt aware of those other stories and would like to talk to you on the phone or in person sometime. Im in Livingston MT. Yeah that area you worked I was envious, its so large and remote. People think that yellowstone ends when you reach the border. This is so far from the truth, it extends east to Cody, south to Pinedale, West to the centennials and North to the Crazies…its as big as France. 99.% of the people who travel the backcounty use the trails, so there are huge areas where you could easily spend decades without ever seeing another person. Heck that plane crash inthe mid 80’s down south of the park took nearly a decade to find the plane and bodys and that is a stationary object. Now imagine trying to find something that moves around…like the shell game etc,. The odds are slim. One above poster seemed insulted that this topic is mentioned. If he knew the scientific research and knowlege in regards to this then maybe he wouldnt feel the same. Jeff Meldrums book has a wealth of info and data collected on this topic. Hair samples collected throughout N. America states it comeing from an unclassified primate.Dermal ridges (groves in your feet like fingerprints) are evident in many cast/tracks found. These ridges flex and contort with each step showing flex in the foot as different amounts of weight are applied and the terrain traveled. As far as fossilzed remains are concerned, there have ONLY been two fossilzed remains of chimpanzeez ever found and the first was in 1982. Without these records we still believed they existed decades before finding any fossil records. We could be talking with an animal with a population base under a 1000. How many people do you know have found a skeleton of a lynx, mtn lion,bobcat, grizz or blackbear?? Im not talking about one hit by a car or shot while hunting but just stumbling on one in the woods. Your also talking about animals FAR exceeding the population density as this creature. If you contact some of the leading research groups in regards to these other animals, which I have, they have told me they dont have any fossilized records. For example in regards to bobcats…there are about 150,000 estimate continent wide…no records found…now compare to an animal with 1000 known. Veryslim odds. According to several National Wildlife organizations there are about a 1000 new species of plants and animals discovered YEARLY. yeah some could be tiny but not all. In the last twent years, 9 new deer species have been discovered worldwide and 1 new elephant species has been discovered in asia, so we are not talking small animals. Bob, Im sure you with your 30 years in the backcountry have never stumbled on the skeleton of a Grizz or Black Bear have you? And there is how many in that park? Finding a rare, illusive animal as this could be is a needle in a haystack.. There have been 74 airplanes go down between N. Calif and Alaska according to the FAA and have NEVER been found…these are big stationary objects that area not found. Toss in an animal that may covers 30 miles in a day, the odds are even less. People think drugged up hunters are the ones reporting these sightings…there are over 10,000 reports in N. America some dating back to the early 1800’s and some before…including Lief Erikson and Magellen both talked in their journals of large hairy creatures walking on two feet. Canadian Explorer David Thompon too talks about tracks in the 1800s and even Teddy Roosevelt talks about two of his friends having an encounter. I in fact saw one very close as a 10 year old growing up in Michigan. I wasnt hallucinating, I know what I saw. In fact 40 members of the US Army/National Guard including a general and Lietenant saw such a creature near where I saw my encounter on a training area near by. The N. AMerican Indian tribes throughout not just the Pacific NWbut all of America have a different name for this creature, you cant disregard their beliefs and the fact a British Columbia Tribe and say one from Colorado have beliefs of this creature from so far apart in their tribes is highly a coincedense. The study of has extended to more than just scientist from the US but primatoligist Jane Goodall is a supporter in this as well as two leading scientist from Russia. Even the Smithsonian has becomming a little more relaxed on the subject now that more scientific data is coming out to overtake the tabloid stories the media has created. It is known in its collection many skelton remains of large bi-ped human type remains being 7-8 feet tall unearthed in the 1850’s. The more scientist and scientific evidence that come out to support this the better and more accepted it will become. For the most part those that just criticise it are the ones who dont know any of the facts, other than what they read in the National Enquirer. Heck if I based my beliefs on God from what I read in the grocery store tabloids or a beef jerky commercial, I wouldnt belive in God either.
Gee I typed way to much.
sorry.
Anyway…Bob drop me an email sometime I would like to talk about the yellowstone incidents if you dont mind or call me. … normpaddlemiller@hotmail.com
Norm, I have found two bear skulls in my 30 some years in Yellowstone. One was a griz and the other was a black bear.
Of course I probably had more oportunity than most because a lot of my travel was off trail and a lot of it was on a horse where one can see more of whats around. Plus I spent a much larger portion of each year in the backcountry than hunters, game wardens or other users. My job was to search and it was to search areas where people weren’t suppose to be. I also covered a lot more ground per day than hunters.
The black bear skull was seen while following a poacher trail up Mountain Ck. Nothing but the skull was there. The griz was found in a cave behind a waterfall at high elevation on the Trident. I have searched hundreds of caves in Yellowstone. Some cave investigations can be hairy. One time I had a mountain lion zip past me and a number of times I have refrained from going in due to the fresh smells coming from inside. Griz like to drag their kill in some of these caves. I always carried extra flashlight batteries for these off trail unexpected cave sightings and it was a winter denning area where my flashlight picked up the hibernating depressions on the earth floor of this small opening rock cave behind the waterfall. In one of these depressions was the skull and skeleton of the griz.
I will e mail when I get a chance.
Many people will not accept the possibility that a north american primate still exists.. I know they do..I have seen one ! And I am studying some very interesting evidence in northern Ontario
Bob et al, I encountered one back in 1996 while working as a park naturalist east of Mississippi. Been doing field investigation and research ever since. Bob, thanks for posting your stories. I’m stationed in Wyoming as a National Park Ranger at this time and would like to pick your brain on Yellowstone and your encounters. Send me an e-mail at: park_ranger _tim@yahoo.com
Thanks for sharing.
Tim, Norm and whomever, My number is 641-874-5794.
Phoning is the best way to communicate with me. I do communicate via the computer but it takes more time than it should. Its hunt and peck. It is better than it was, however. 8 years ago the only keys on the board I knew were the close together letters W, A and S. I could type those letters for the word, was, with confidence. Evenings are the best time to reach me. If I’m not in leave a message on the machine.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us Bob.
I tend to be a fairly skeptical person but I had an experience 14 years ago that has made me seriously consider the possibile existence of a creature such as bigfoot.
A friend and I heard a very loud howling/screaming sound near a creek in east-central Arizona in the middle of the night (about 2:00am). Both of us were very familiar with the various sounds/vocalizations of native known wildlife and were absolutely frightened by this sound. In fact, it was very strange how scared both of us became, since both of us considered ourselves to be tough guys. The loud volume of this howl, our inability to identify it and something strange in its quality had an amazingly powerful effect on us.
For many years I pondered over what could have been behind that strange sound. I knew that it did not come from any animal that I was familiar with. And even after some lengthy research of all the vocalizations of known animals, I still could not find anything that remotely approximated the sounds my friend and I had heard that night.
It never even crossed my mind that it could have come from a bigfoot. I guess I thought that bigfoot were only reported from the Pacific Northwest. Certainly not Arizona.
However, a few years ago I came across some information about bigfoot on the internet that led me to listen to some of the purported bigfoot vocalizations that have been recorded. A few of these vocalizations gave me chills because they were very similar to what I heard a decade earlier. I was shocked and it really caused me to look much more seriously at the whole bigfoot subject.
It turns out there have been quite a few bigfoot sightings in Arizona, most of them from the part of the state I live in. Some of these encounters have been reported in local papers.
I am telling you guys in complete honesty that what my friend and I heard cannot be explained by any animal that I know of. It was truly one of the strangest things that has ever happened to me. Some people might say, “oh, you heard something, so what? It could have been anything. Animals make a lot of strange sounds”, but if you had been there and heard what my friend and I heard I don’t believe anybody could feel that way. This sound was loud, distinct, and went on for several minutes. Hearing this howl I just knew that whatever was making it was large and was indeed a very real animal, yet one that was completely unknown to me.
A female friend of mine recently told me of a similar experience she had while camping alone with her dog in a remote canyon in northern Arizona. Late in the evening she awoke to some strange whooping sounds. She said that these sounds were unlike anything she had ever heard and that it seemed there were two creatures on opposite sides of the canyon calling back and forth to one another.
Anyway, I still believe that there could be a very mundane explanation for what we heard that night but I am unaware at this time of what could have made those sounds. I have heard coyotes make some very strange calls and yet none of them comes close to the sounds we heard. Same goes for mountain lion and every other animal that I am aware of. If anybody has any ideas about what this could have been please post them.
In any case, given my experience and the many accounts and bits of evidence I have read about I am certainly open-minded to the possibility of the existence of bigfoot.
I watched a video of an appearant Chupacabra taken by a sheriff’s dash camera, It was on yahoo’s news link this morning. What ever it was, it was not ordinary. It did match the photos and discription of other animals that were called chupacabras. The difference was, this was a very clear, easy to see, film of the actual animal running at a short distance for some time in fron t of the sheriff’s car.
I also know that I have personally seen, and have owned, a greyhound dog with a snout/nose that long. It is no different from a human having been born with a very big nose.
It did have other unusaual features and was no coyote or avergae dog, unless there is some sort mutation within a breed. I would to be a genetically linked one as there have been dead animals and numerous detailed ohtos and pictures of them.
I also heard that there is now a very legitimate photo of a DEAD bigfoot. (Though no body has been brought to anyone for verification-oddly?)
At any rate, it raises the question of more endangered and undiscovered species in our ever shrinking public -and to some degree private-lands. If this is in fact a new species, should it not be granted protection until science can determine it’s origin, numbers and investigate it further?
Here under the correct thread: Saw it on CNN. It looks “canid” (with an ugly face). I never thought the mystic chupacabra would turn out bull mastiff, how boring :-)) Makes me wonder what the bigfoot will turn out.
Try going to youtube.com and put in chupacabra dash cam. I am not sure what you saw, but what I saw was not what I think is a mastiff.
My remark about the mastiff was intended ironically, being somewhat unfair to the mastiff, which is a really great dog. Nevertheless I think that animal on the video is a dog. And somehow I thought the mystic chupacabra would be something more exotic and sensational than a dog.
….and if you do a search for “Chupacabra” in the CNN video data base another one from late 2007 shows up, where a texan rancher digs into his refrigerator and pulls out the frozen head of an animal quoted to be “the mystirious goat sucker”. They have also footage of a complete carcass. It looks similar (but even more “canid”) to the animal shown running around in the newer video. And…… if Ralph had not opened that bigfoot thread we would have missed the contributions of bob jackson. His memories from a real life outdoors make for the most thrilling reading. Thanks for sharing.
Ralph said: “The major problems I find is why no discovered carcasses or skeletons?”
This, indeed is the most compelling evidence. I am unwilling to rule out the possibility of a large North American primate; however, I would say that given the paucity of evidence the likelihood that such a creature has inhabited North America, side by side with human beings for well over 10,000 years with no verifiable evidence is extremely…extremely small. There are always other ways of explaining the “unexplainable.”
(1) I met a Yellowstone ranger once that recounted watching a grizzly stand up on its hind legs, grab a camper’s cooler, and walk off into the woods like Yogi Bear. I have to imagine bears have other reasons to walk on two legs from time to time.
(2) Pictures (which are ALWAYS blurry) can be altered or scenes staged; moreover you can’t rule out the possibility that the anomalous animals pictured in these photos are some poor, deformed individual of existing fauna.
Still, it would sure be neat to be proven wrong!
talltrent is right about Skamania County Washington . . this is bigfoot territory. We are having Bigfoot days here next weekend:
http://www.bigfootbashandbounty.com.
If all of these animals are canids, they are a new breed. My family has raised and trained dogs for over 6 generations and that is like no dog I have ever seen.
I have seen some dogs with serious over-bites and they face challenges with eating. To be a wild canid with this type of impairment, you would have additional issues with not only killing, but eating prey. (The dogs I have seen have to lean over and eat at a peculiar angle, have trouble breathing while they eat, and take a very long time to eat.)
I couldn’t honestly say I think this animals is a dog. But if it is, then why are so many dogs in various wide spread loactions looking like this, with short legs, and profuse maxilofacial abnormalities?
Perhaps it is a new species, or breed? Heck stranger things have happened. And yes, most certainly I find Bob Jackson accounts of bigfoot very exciting and reputable.
I highly doubt the existance of Bigfoot. However in yellowstones recorded history only four signtings of lynx have been recorded. A animal of bigfoots size could be equally wary of contact with humans and it’s larger brainsize capacity of a primate that size could rival our intelegince. Don’t forget a primate such as Bigfoot would of been in conflict with humans for thosands of years.Just because we can’t prove him today does not mean his lore is based on falsehoods.
Brazil has indigenous tribes that have never seen the wonder and depravity of modern humanity. They reside in remote
stretches of the rain forest. It’s nice to think America has a undiscovered mystery of well
(typed on a iPod) pardon any errors
Today CNNonline has some Bigfoot news with pictures of a carcass. (Somehow the application here does not allow me to paste a link here) II thinks its secondary what Bigfoot (Yeti?) is or if it really exists or not. It gives us at least a lot of thrilling stories.
Try http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/08/15/ac.360.shot.bigfoot.cnn?iref=videosearch
It’s a video. Given the views from just one direction, it could be an easy fake.
Dr. Meldrum seems to agree. There is a short piece on the Scientific American website about his reaction to the “discovery” and he seems to be very skeptical of the discoverers due to past dealings with them.
Here is a story from ABC News suggesting a fake.
Hi Ralph
Great topic, i have been a fan of this website since it started. I have hiked and worked in some western national forests and now live in the east. Beleive it or no there have been and are some fairly legitimate reports of BF type creatures in the eastern U.S also. From the dacks south through the appalacians. Lots of cover, water and deer.
How many people are in these off trail remote spots at night , maybe a few bushwackers a year, and in some places never and many places are never trampled off trail. And if something has developed the skills and necessary camoflouge techniques to avoid people all this time, then why couldnt they exist ?
The pennsylvania photo looks like it could be a very un healthy bear with bad mange, but the head appears roundish and the hind legs look monkey like. Another ‘close but not close enough’ photo of a supposed bigfoot.
Matt
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/regionstate/story/302209.html
says: “Recently, DeWitt County Sheriff’s Department deputies filmed a scrawny, hairless, canine animal loping down the road. Last summer, Phylis Canion found a similar animal dead near her DeWitt County home. Though the creature was touted as the legendary goat-sucking chupacabra, a DNA test from Texas State University in San Marcos revealed it was most likely a coyote crossed with Mexican wolf. Pictures show whatever it is, it’s been playing fetch with the ugly stick”
I still believe it´s a canid, most probably dog, but cannot see anything resembling either coyote or wolf in that pictures (nor in the sherriff´s video)
Bigfoot hoaxers say it was just a big joke. CNN.
It looks like it was more of a scam for money.
What’s the proper plural term — Bigfoots or Bigfeet?
As far as whether Bigfoot exists, I see reasons to be both cynical about or receptive toward the idea.
On the “con” side, it does seem incredible that such a large species could have gone essentially undetected for so long. Why has there not been any irrefutably clear photos or video footage of the creature yet captured? Yes, you can argue that the creature would be very secretive and possibly almost exclusively nocturnal. And yet, we have clear photos and film footage of creatures such as wolverines, which even in a healthy population are notoriously secretive and sparse. Many of even the most experienced outdoorsmen and women who have spent years in wolverine country have never seen one. And yet, we have proof they exist. Why can’t we get such proof of Bigfoot?
Also, even if the creatures have a near-human level of intelligence, recognize people as dangerous and have elevated evading detection by humans to an art form, you would think that simple odds dictate one would have “screwed up” by now. I’m thinking along the lines of juvenile male letting curiosity get the better of him and cavorting out onto a ski slope. Or getting hit by a logging truck because he was too busy daydreaming about Miss Bigfoot and not paying attention to his surroundings. Or, perhaps even an adult Bigfoot becoming disoriented because of dementia – or suffering from a fever or infection from a wound – and ending up deliriously wandering around on the main street of some town somewhere. Or what about an orphaned Bigfoot baby wandering into somebody’s camp? The point is; you would think something like that would have happened by now.
On the “Pro” side, we have the testimony of many people over many years who clearly aren’t flakes or crackpots, who obviously have the experience to be able identify a bear or any other known critter and who have seen or heard “something” out there they simply can’t explain.
There’s also the evidence of tracks, some of which were obvious fakes, but some of which can’t so easily be explained away.
And, of course, the Patterson film has been scrutinized many times. And although it’s far from crystal clear and irrefutable proof, many experts are baffled as to how it could have been faked by a person in a suit – especially considering the limited means for such a thing available in 1967. I’ve also read that the locomotion of the “creature” in the film supposedly would have been all but impossible for a human being to imitate, esp. a human being in a heavy rubber and fake fur suit.
It all adds up to a compelling mystery.
Although I feel that 99.9% of these reports are totally bogus, I’m quite certain that the things written about here by Bob Jackson and Smoke Elser are legit.
I myself am an outfitter and wilderness guide and discovered a strange set of footprints going up a high ridge in the Bitterroot Mountains and then across the top of the Pintlars and into the Big Hole. From a point near Johnson Peak, I could see the tracks continue over snow fields at 10,000 feet or so.
I first came onto the tracks down near the head waters of Bugle Creek in the East Fork of the Bitterroot and was able to follow them as they crossed down into Dense Creek and then back up and over Shultz Saddle–then switching back to the East and over Johnson Peak and down the other side into the dark timber on the Big Hole side of the range. I followed them in the snow for about 10 miles and could see them (through binocs) continuing on for yet another 2 miles.
These tracks were ‘human-like’ but large… about a size 14 or 15, I’d guess… and barefoot in the snow. Damn strange, but damn real, too.
I don’t know who or what made the tracks, but something did.