The URL is http://www.fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/hunt/wolf/quota.cfm
Unfortunately, so far they are not keeping it up to date. We expect that they will (meaning should be required to).
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Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan’s Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of “Hiking Idaho.” He also wrote “Beyond the Tetons” and “Backpacking Wyoming’s Teton and Washakie Wilderness.” He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.
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Hunters must call-in within 24 hours of a kill, but they have 5 days to check the pelt and skull in. I would expect that until an animal has been officially checked in that the tally would remain unchanged, but I will check with Boise HQ.
Gregg,
Thanks for the explanation because I wasn’t the only one who wondered about it.
Notice on the map there is a code for closed season but there isn’t one closed season. what a surprise but a hunting dominated wildlife dept.
JW, there won’t be a closed season until the quota is met for that zone.
Oh, I got you. I was thinking more of closed season, like no hunting allowed to allow for other uses (wildlife watching, etc).
That makes sense though, thanks for the clarification B…
Not updated today. I don’t know if that means that there were no wolves killed on the second day or whether they just didn’t update it.
A wolf taker in the Lolo zone reported that he shot the wolf in the Lolo National Forest; that is in Montana which is not currently open to hunting. Was he legal? Did he know where he was? Is it a mistake in reporting by media or the hunter? Legal or not?
i think they just put that link up today so i imagine they are still working on it. but i have heard no info of wolves taken yesterday or today.
not sure if the wolf was taken in montana, but if he was in montana weather he new it or not it would be ilegal. I am guessing ti was misreported. i would guesse it would be a huge deal if the first kill was ilegal.
i wish this would show the amount of hunters checked or seen, also if wolfs were seen. so we knew the success rate. i am sure that there arnt many hunters out there yet compared to what there will be in a month when the rifle deer and elk hunts open. it says 3 wolfs were shot 2 in lola 1 in sawtooth. I will say i am suprised in 3 days that more havnt been shot.
The site now says “Data Current: September 4, 2009”
They must be reading the blog 😉
Doesn’t look like the hunt is the slaughter some predicted. Still looks like 3 wolves harvested. Even last year’s unregluated hunt (which I don’t support) in Wyoming didn’t dent the population in Sublette County, Wyoming. Aerial shooting is the only thing that has allowed for the control or wolves around Pinedale, Big Piney, and Farson.
Ken and Jeff, if you look under the “Date Updated” box on the statistics chart, look at the Lolo and Sawtooth seasons, it still says their numbers were last updated on September 2nd. What you were looking at, which is above the statistics chart, was just a listing of the current date, not when it was last updated. For some reason they don’t keep that chart up-to-date. So far, we don’t know whats been happening since Sept. 2. If we estimate, from what we know, three wolves are taken in about one to two days (depending on if the chart was updated Sept 2nd early morning or late evening).
Lets hope they get there site updated.
I doubt they will update it until the next wolf is taken and reported..
Aaron,
Their site was updated as has been updated daily since the 1st.
I called Idaho Game and Fish yesterday for an explanation on their online chart, and they explained that the date next to the area signifies the date of the last reported wolf kill. The date at the top of the page is updated daily, and if no wolves were reported the date next to the areas will not change.
Pretty simple. You folks are trying to create a conspiracy out of thin air.
Oh, I didn’t know that was how it worked. Usually a chart will show an updated date in a particular section despite whether anything happened or not so that you are sure of the daily statistics. Thanks for the info, but conspiracy? Hey, if you have a hot head, don’t get it out on me. No big deal man, cool it.
I don’t trust the map.
Right off after I posted this story, Gregg Losinski of Idaho Fish and Game made an explanation. It looks like there is an inevitable lag due to logistics.
Nevertheless, it should be updated every day even if there are no wolf tags filled. As I am writing this, it looks like it is 2 1/2 days behind.
So I was right about the chart to a certain degree?
David Mech has been a wolf biologist for over 60 years, and he’s probably the most renown in the world for wolf research, he’s written some good books on wolf behavior. I’m sure if he had the prerogative to change how wolf management went, I think he would. But he’s going along with the general flow that wolf numbers won’t be significantly by the hunt, but keeping quite other effects of hunting a animal with a social community. I don’t know why he didn’t mention anything about those other aspects, it might be that he wants to stay out of the controversy.
And Mike, I know what you mean about wolf haters, I have a YouTube account and I’ve run into a good some of wolf hate’n fanatics. Its like the of their life is to get revenge at every wolf living, attack anyone who may have an interest oriented with wolves, and persistently put up a drama about the elk herds.
My account has a lot of neat videos, http://www.youtube.com/user/WhiteVV01F
By the way, is that wolf count chart really messed up, or have their really been only 3 wolves taken?
How do you know how David Mech stands now on the western take on wolf management Aaron? Is there a recent article?? And how do you know a wolf hunt and numbers not being bad is the “general flow” opinion?
Its like the of their life is to get revenge at every wolf living, attack anyone who may have an interest oriented with wolves, and persistently put up a drama about the elk herds.
Some people’s kids. 🙂
Interesting comment Bambi but what does it contribute?
If you are an anti hunter it doesnt contribute a thing gline, if you are a hunter looking at the statistics I would say that most all the wolves in the forest are fairly safe. I would say that wolf advocates need to take a deep breath and I would also say hunters would need to sharpen their skills. Ending hunting is not going to happen as long as hunters have guns.
That is way too global of a statement. And biased. and doesn’t contribute, except to polarize.
gline,
I can honestly say, that virtually every single comment on this blog is biased in one way or another…
LOL
What harm can come from polarizing those of different values? It will eventually draw out the radicals that spew emotion rather than logical thinking. Near as I can tell it works quite well. Its for my own use as I am sitting on the fence.
gline,
The last article I read where David asserted his opinion on the wolf matter, he said something to the effect that he was alright with the hunt. However, it was a few months ago when I read it. If you know of any recent updates on David’s take on the matter, please direct me to it.
What I mean by general flow is, well at least I think, that there are more people who think the wolf population wont be significantly affected. That matter is kinda in the eyes of the beholder though. I don’t really know. But its a blog, so we blog around.
I don’t know if Dr. Mech is still doing active research on wolves, but if you don’t go along with the agencies, it is more difficult to get research grant money.
bambi and others who don’t see any harm in polarizing opinion on this blog, please think again. The subject already lends itself to polarization. Therefore, don’t deliberately fan the flames.
“What harm can come from polarizing those of different values?”
(a) People will “extremify” their views, adopting positions that are politically convenient, even if they know they are not factually correct [exhibit A = death squads].
(b) It makes compromise less likely. If you’re interested in a continued shouting match, with absurd claims and lots of name-calling, then by all means pour on the polarizing rhetoric. However, if you’d like to see people begin to work together, it might be wise to adopt a more moderate tone.
Bambi: that is total bs that you are sitting on the fence
Save Bears, thanks again for the insightful comment however I was speaking directly to Bambi. the sarcasm stinks by the way … lol stuff this is a serious subject to me. Not a game.
gline,
I was completely serious in my comment and I was not being sarcastic, when there are issues as important as wolves and various land use issues, there is never going to be anything but biased comments and I have myself over the last year, been told that “Coming together” is not possible by many on this blog. I have been a proponent of actually trying to work together, only to be told its to late by both sides…
When people have such strong opinions on issue, I don’t think it is possible to post non-biased comments on these subjects.
Ralph,
David Mech just finished a research session on the Ellesmere Island wolves last month. He was doing a day to day blog of the progress. I think he goes there at least once a year. So apparently he is still active, surprisingly with his age.
Here is the Ellesmere blog: http://internationalwolfcenter.blogspot.com/
I’m beginning to think the map is not updated as often as it says. Early in the morning it changes the date so the date must be automated.
Youtube has a video of one of the wolves shot- on rockholm66 site- the female that was alledgedly harassing the hunters horse….
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockholm66
I hope rockholm is on some sort of watch list as a danger to society- he is one distorted scary guy and he is raising his daughter to be just like him.
– – – –
Note: Rockholm sent in a comment about your comment Sara O. I put it up for a few minutes, but then took it down because it would cause too much of a stir. My wife was already yelling at him and her father was a North Idaho outfitter. If anyone wants to hear him have his say, Sara put up the link. He has no reason to be dissatisfied. Webmaster
Thanks Save Bears I have been on this blog myself for the past 2-3 years save a year long respite last year (not due to this sight in particular as reason to stay off but personal loss ). I understand where you coming from but making fun of me with LOL like I had never thought of that doesn’t help the situation. and I would expect more out of you.
I was in Stanley over the weekend and spoke to a Fish & Game officer on Sunday evening. He told me that to his knowledge the wolf killed opening day near Bull Trout Lake is the only wolf that had been reported in the Sawtooth Zone.
Well, I watched the video of the right wing terrorist defender of his horse, lol, I’ve seen dangerous people in my day, sorry to tell you this but this man does not fit the bill.
I also run horses in Cape Horn, Bull Trout lake, and Bear Valley country. And more than once I have had wolves come right to my camp site for a visit.
It is the horse their interested in. If I am just back packing I rarely see wolves, hear em, see their tracks, but rarely see wolves..
I suppose we should stop taking horses to the mountains since the wolves are so interested in them. This type of wolf activity is not a lie, I have seen it with my own eyes, i have not had to defend myself or my horses yet.
If you think this is nonsense head into that country there, take some horses with you, and go camping, I’ll guide any of you for free in fact, and we will find out together what I have already seen.
What ever you do in that country there, do not leave your horses alone. Unless you wish to get rid of them.
SR25Stoner……….Can you point to documented cases of wolves attacking horses?
Curious, because in a recent conversation with a Canadian who spent 15 years living in wolf country with his horses, he said that wolves will not attack horses because horses are very adept at defending themselves and wolves know it.
sara o,
You mean “thee” Rockholm66? He’s one of the leaders in the wolf-hating circles in the YouTube realm. Along with his lively cronies (who no doubt you’ll run into you, or they’ll find you), ctgolfer, kenbob57, BruceH59, and susanthehunter. Eaglecreekbrewer is another one who negative passion towards wolves, although he’s more open minded then the above. But don’t get me wrong, there’s as much wolf-loving loonies as there are the wolf hating ones. YT is just a…a pretty crazy place. Kingdom of the emotions I should say, with visuals.
Why don’t you explain to me why wolves come into my camp, if it is not the horse then what is it their interested in, coffee or oatmeal ?
Why did this wolf make it so easy for this man to kill it by coming into his camp ?
Look at the video, the timber around bull trout lake is very thick. Also horses are no more adept at self defense than elk are. Mules might be, but if a horse, elk, mule runs from the fight it’s over.
That is why the lunging at the horse as he says he saw, the wolf wanted the horse to run.. Do you folks ever spend time in the wild watching how wolves operate ?
If you can not find documentation of wolves killing horses your not looking very hard.
Bears are a dangerous animal, so are cougars, so are wolves, so are elk, so are deer, so are horses if their wild or you don’t know anything about horses.
I shared some truth with you, from my own eyes and experiences. What experiences can you share ? Have you been there deep in that country with a horse or horses ?
I have been in there often, and will be in there next week for three weeks…
SR25Stoner…..Yup, I have. I have also looked for horse depredations by wolves(lions occasionally kill a horse because they use different techniques), and I can’t find any cases.
Just asking you to BACK UP YOUR ALLEGATIONS.
jerryB,
I do recall a horse or two being taken by wolves since the reintroduction but it is extremely rare. I don’t have time to look for the incidents but I seem to recall it being reported in one of the weekly reports long ago.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/archives.htm
There were some horses near the mouth of Squaw Creek near Clayton and I would regularly see wolves in the same pasture with them. The wolves generally ignored the horses and the horses ignored the wolves. There are wild horses in that country and several on WWP’s Greenfire Ranch. A wolf was observed approaching them and the horses chased it away. From the account I heard the wolf was lucky to get away with its life.
When I was at the Taylor Ranch in the Frank Church they had several horses and never once had any issues with wolves. They did put a trap next to one of their dead horses and captured and collared a wolf. FYI the Taylor Ranch is owned by the University of Idaho and is used as a research station.
Of course wolves may be curious and may test a horse but that is far different than a wolf actually attacking, injuring, or killing a horse. That is extremely rare.
1 probable kill in ’99
http://www.fws.gov/mountain%2Dprairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt99/
2 in 2000
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt00/html/annualrpt2000.html
2 injured in 2002
http://www.fws.gov/mountain%2Dprairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt02/annual_report2002.htm
2 injured in 2003
http://www.fws.gov/mountain%2Dprairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt03/2003report.pdf
There are probably more too, I only looked at 99-03 reports.
I point this out not to show that Jerry B is wrong but more to show how rare it has been. These reports don’t mention the health of the horses either. They may have been very unhealthy or perfectly fine but I tend to think that they horses were likely old and unhealthy.
I think that the circumstances the guy describes in the video would likely have resulted in the wolf walking away with the horse uninjured if the guy hadn’t shot the wolf. Wolves aren’t so stupid as to attack a healthy horse on their own. The wolf likely would have walked away.
“I think that the circumstances the guy describes in the video would likely have resulted in the wolf walking away with the horse uninjured if the guy hadn’t shot the wolf. Wolves aren’t so stupid as to attack a healthy horse on their own. The wolf likely would have walked away.” Ken
I agree Ken. The wolf needs the horse to run away from him/her, then the wolf has a chance at ripping open the horses belly. I know horses, and some horses are faster than deer or elk on the run. I know because I’ve roped doe deer and cow elk before, and then once they were tired out, I let em go.. lol.
I was a youngster once. My horse today could do it, but not me I’m afraid..ugh..
Ken,
The end of year 2008 wolf report states that there have been 10 horses that have confirmed killed by wolves in the three recovery areas since 1987.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/tables/FINAL_2008_DEP_by_REC_AREA_Table+5a_3-15-09.pdf
Rather rare, IMHO.
The video of the Archie Mountain Pack GPS collared wolf shot near Bull Trout Lake is one of the sickest things I’ve ever seen on the internet. The confused hunter calls the wolf a he, then she, then he again, etc etc. There is a reason the wolf came into his camp near his horse. He’s not telling that. Maybe the wolf was just curious. If he would have yelled, the wolf would have run. Instead he gut shot it (her? him?) and stuffed it onto his ATV, and then made probably the year’s worst video. At the least, the most illiterate.
I’ve watched wolves walk through pastures with horses many times. The horses barely prick their ears. One of the IDFG wolf managers, has camped for years with his horses near Bull Trout Lake and in Bear Valley, and never had a problem. I’ve encountered wolves more times than I can count in Central Idaho and never felt threatened, for myself, or my dog.
OK!! It does happen, infrequently. Thanks for the education folks. I obviously didn’t dig deep enough.
lol, poor jerryB. Yeah, I think the horse issue is thoroughly covered.
JerryB, I am with you on just about everything. Don’t take it as a slight. Oh, and thanks for the great hat! You can’t get that shit just anywhere.
FYI, the count now says that 4 wolves have been taken.
Yeah, I was just about the crack the news on the quote update. Four wolves now. Its been more then a week, it looks like the hunt wont take that much of an effect after all. Its either A: Wolves are actually quite elusive and hard to hunt. B: 800 – 1,000 wolves in the whole state of Idaho makes it rare to run into a wolf. C: Hunters aren’t that adapt to hunting wolves. D: Something is wrong with that chart. Or E: A, B and C.
It could also be that it will be easier to hunt wolves when they and the elk become more concentrated during the winter.
Could be.
Aaron, maybe the results from option A will show people that wolves are not overrunning Idaho.
I didn’t watch the video but there have been dozens of incidents similar to this. The only difference is what the humans think is happening when the wolf or wolves come.
About 8 years ago I got email from a Yellowstone Park outfitter who took his clients in the Park backcountry. They repeatedly saw wolves and one night the entire pack walked through camp while they were asleep, not bothering the horses or waking anyone. They only way they could tell was all the tracks in the morning. Did they destroy anything? Yes a couple of aluminum cans were chewed full of holes!
Ken…..we’re OK.
You’re welcome for the hat. Some on here have got me worried though that all the moose will be killed by wolves and I’ll be out of business. Does the government give welfare subsidies to moose shit salesmen?
Results matter not if your relying on information found printed anywhere to show your self or other people anything. Being on the ground in the forest on lands you know and have spent a lifetime on are relevant, anything else is hear say and assumption, nothing more than varied opinions and perspectives. Wolves are the top wild predator in the jungle, they take elk, deer, antelope, small game, they kill bear cubs, once in awhile they find and kill hibernating bears, and if they catch a cougar out in the open the cougar is done to, I think the only predator which can stand up against them might be the wolverine, which is my favorite of all predators, the bad boy on the block as far as I am concerned, just go to you tube and watch the wolf wolverine fights, I just wonder how many wolves it takes to make the wolverine climb a tree. I see incredible changes in elk herds around here, cow to calf ratio. I can only believe what I find out by spending time in those places I have spent many years in. I have had wolves all about me, and I am still here to tell it, bears in my tent looking at me, I will never forget the look on one of those bears face when I sat up on my cot and shined that flash light in his face, LOL, scare the hell out of him and he booked it out of there, rattled me a bit as well, and cougars caught watching me over the years, but never a close up with the wolverine, those have always been a couple hundred yards away moving away. Their the coolest predator in the jungle. Most of us are not intimidated by wolves, unlike some folks though, I do not under estimate them at all. Now I must go count my horses again, lol.
Stoner,
Is generally right, IMO. Here are a few additions since his experience is mostly on the northern end of the Sawtooths and further to the NW.
In Montana and Wyoming grizzly bears dominate wolves and displace the wolves from their kills.
Wolves take very few pronghorn because they just can’t catch them. The couple of exceptions are when the wolves or the pronghorn itself got trapped by natural barriers.
The Yellowstone pronghorn population has grown since wolves arrived because wolves kill coyotes, and coyotes are a huge predator on antelope fawn.
Cougar are indeed displaced by wolf packs, but a number of individual wolves have been caught and killed by cougar.
The associated press is reporting the Judge has ruled against the injunction and the wolf hunt will continue..
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HUNTING_WOLVES?SITE=TXKER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I find these comments very interesting! Especially about the coyotes, pronghorn and wolves. On the 25th or 26th of June, this spring, our family pulled over to see interaction between the wolf and coyote the “wolf watchers” were watching. A blk wolf was chasing a coyote along Soda Butte Creek bank, not very intense, just chasing, it quit the coyote and walked up into the trees. As we watched the one wolf, another joined it and they spooked up an pronghorn fawn. The wolves chased the frieghtened fawn up and down the valley, with two adult antelope running circles around them, until the wolves just stopped. This all taking about 5-10 minutes! The fawn kept on running and running up onto a sagebrush flat where we last saw the coyote and the coyote killed the fawn. A disappointing end to a sight of a lifetime, as we are only in Yellowstone once in 8 or 10 years. My guess is the wolves were not hungry, having just come off the buffalo carcuss the “wolf watchers”were watching, or they would have taken the fawn away from the coyote.
Do you think this assumption is correct??
Thanks GrammaJackie,
I don’t know what to think. Wolves generally don’t bother with antelope fawn because they are too small to bother to search. Coyotes find them to be just the right size and usually take them before they can run much.
Young well fed wolves will chase things for what I guess we could call “fun.” My belief is that is how most sheep are killed. Wolves comes across them, and the sheep run. The wolves aren’t serious, but one takes a bite. They find they are truly defenseless and easy to catch, so a wolf or wolves kill a bunch of them.
Its the instinct of wolves to catch and secure as much food as possible, if an opportunity arises where its fortunately easy to get. The experience is quite stimulation for the wolf. Resulting in a bunch of dead sheep they don’t really need.
Biologist Paul Leyhausen did a lot of work on surplus killing, although mostly with felids. I think it’s applicable to most predators, though. He found that, when presented with lots of targets that could not escape, the cues emitted by the prey triggered the predatory behavior sequence again and again. It really isn’t killing for “fun,” it’s instinctive behavior when confronted with available prey.
I seem to remember reading recently that only a few instances were known of surplus killing of wild prey by wolves, and they all involved winter-yarded deer or elk. The same study aso found that the wolves, if left undisturbed, would return to the scene of the kills again and again for weeks, until the food was gone.
Every instance I have heard of surplus killing of elk by wolves was in the winter in a feedlot or in very deep snow with very weak elk.
And yes, the Yellowstone surplus killing found the wolves keep coming back for a long time to feed, but they lost a lot of meat to scavengers.
In the Jackson Hole case, the feedlot managers dragged the dead elk off the lot and piled them up near the snowmobile road. This prompted the wolves to come back again and again to find their prey gone, so they killed more elk.
‘they lost a lot of meat to scavengers. ”
That’s one of the things a lot of anti-wolf people miss- that just because a wolf doesn’t eat every bite of a kill, that doesn’t mean it’s “wasted.” One dead elk can feed a lot of ravens, magpies, wolverines, foxes, and other scavengers when prey for them is scarce. A dead animal never really is “wasted,” something benefits from it.
Hmmm…I see that the fourth dead wolf’s location on the map was moved from the Sawtooth to the McCall-Weiser zone…which is closed. I imagine there’s a fat chance of actually citing the hunter for killing a wolf in a closed zone…
That is interesting. If in fact it was killed in a closed zone I’m sure a fine will be involved and possibly a loss of hunting priviledges. The Fish and Game are not taking this hunt lightly. They were out in full force last weekend in Stanley area.
I didn’t notice that they had moved it!!
If it was indeed an illegal kill, I’d love to see it get as much publicity as the killing of the first wolf got. I’m afraid it will turn out to be more like “Oh, he wandered over the hunt zone border and didn’t realize it.” We;ll see.
Eagle man cited for poaching a wolf outside a designated hunting zone. He shot a small female wolf while he was standing in the back of his pickup truck. There were witnesses. He tried to tell authorities he thought he was in the Sawtooth zone.
Looks like they already cited him for the illegal kill and shooting from a road as well as confiscating his gun and camera. Ignorance of the hunting boundaries is no excuse and the Fish and Game have been very strict about this with all other game species. I hope they don’t go easy on this idiot and I don’t believe they will.
Not knowing where you are is as bad and as stupid as not knowing your target, I am glad they cited him and hope they use the full process to ensure they will not allow illegal acts to happen in this hunt, there is no excuse for not knowing where you are..
They’ll have to set an example by forcing charges. If they don’t want it to happen again that is.
Season is open in two new zones, Middle Fork and Selway.
The total amount of wolves taken is now five.