Have you seen interesting wildlife news. July 5, 2010
This replaces the 12th edition. That edition has now gone down into the depths of the archives-
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Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan’s Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of “Hiking Idaho.” He also wrote “Beyond the Tetons” and “Backpacking Wyoming’s Teton and Washakie Wilderness.” He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.
Comments
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/05/1256481/salmon-region-have-come-a-long.html
200,000+ compared to millions within a few generations,
I guess we should all celebrate
There is some reason for qualified celebration, but as the article states most are hatchery fish. We should keep the celebration subdued until the wild runs are restored (and some Snake dams knocked down). I submit as long as nets are in the river (which cannot discriminate between a hatchery or wild fish), this will be a precarious victory for wild salmon (and steelhead).
There should be a five year moratorium on nets in the river and any stakeholders (treaty tribes should take most of theirs from hatchery stock at Columbia fish ladders in my view) with possible supplemental compensation in the interim, and an accomodation for a very few net sets for subsistence and religious purposes.
You know, they are doing a study to build more dams on the Boise and Payette rivers. The reason are all hatchery fish is because the salmon cannot reach their spawning grounds up the Boise and Payette due to the dams already in place.
There are alternatives. They can build off-steam storage rservoirs and remove the on-streams dams. It would not cost very much more.
Water is going to become a big issue in Idaho. There is already a hundred thousand acres of farmland near Twin Falls that may need to be returned to desert due to lack of water.
I am a Civil Engineer, and while I believe we need to store water, we do not need to build on-stream dams to do so. On-stream dams are a cheap band-aid type of fix with high long term costs. There are many areas in Idaho where large reserviors could be constructed, off-stream, that would not affect fish runs…or at least not to the degree that dams do now. Most of Idaho’s famous salmon runs could be restored.
I like your thinking, pointswest. There is a lot that can be done to maintain or restore riverine and riparian ecosystem processes even in the presence of a hydroproject. Actually, that’s a large part of what I participate in at the company I work for.
What sucks even more than Americans planning dams are countries like China and Italy building mega-dam projects in Africa and South America where environmental regulations are nearly non-existent, at least when there is money involved.
Largest bear removal effort in WA state history – More on the 10 black bears that were either destroyed or trapped and relocated to Mt. Rainer NP. Oysterville, where this incident took place, is on the Long Beach Peninsula about 20 miles north of the mouth of the Columbia. The peninsula is less than 2 miles wide for most of its 23 mile length (known for its continuous sandy beach). Over the last forty years or so it has been built up with summer homes (they will all be gone if a Tsunami hits, as it is flat).
It appears now there are as many as 15 bears involved, not the stated 10.
This has also generated discussion in small communities along the coast, which are enacting their own ordinances against feeding wildlife – and that is good news -since the state is apparently not inclined to pass an aggressive law, says the article. Geez.
Sorry, the link to the article:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012274486_apwafeedingbears.html
Wyoming’s governor gets ready to sell some of Grand Teton!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/04/AR2010070404003.html?wprss=rss_politics
Month old article, Jim Beers unreliable “expert”
http://www.cdapress.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_be34d7e7-87c9-5552-8b93-b25328dffdb3.html
Yes jon (and all),
It appears that this sudden new “wolf expert” on the scene has been grinding his ax against changing views of wildlife management for many years now.
He is just new to the area with a slightly new cause.
A somewhat short article from Smithsonian about some much-needed forward thinking at the Alligator River N.W.R. Complex and red wolves.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/specialsections/40th-anniversary/Rising-Seas-Endanger-Wetland-Wildlife.html
This is not news; it is a short bit of history from the Idaho Historical Society about salmon runs in the Boise River.
http://www.idahohistory.net/Reference%20Series/1022.pdf
I have posted it before, but Captain John C. Fremont wrote in his journals that salmon were so numerous at the base of Shoshone Falls on the Snake River (near Twin Falls, Idaho) that fishing Shoshone and Bannock Indians would only need to cast their spear aimlessly into the water to take fish.
Here’s your chance to make a difference… provided you are qualified.
http://careers.wildlife.org/c/job.cfm?site%5Fid=8764&jb=6932877
Sounds good until you get to this part “working with stockmen to advise them when wolves are near their livestock and to provide recommendations that will minimize depredations.”
But actually, I know just the woman for this job. She had a previous temp job down in the border areas of Arizona to shoot coyotes to reduce bighorn predation. She’s tall, blonde, and beautiful and likes to go bear huntin’. I can just see her knocking on the doors of ranchers to talk wolves. I’m sending her the link!
Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks has apparently settled on a Limited Quota of “only ” 186 wolves for this autumn’s statewide wolf hunt.
That’s 2.5 times as many as last year’s quota.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_f1d7f108-88ff-11df-809e-001cc4c03286.html
I do still wonder about that Montana Hunt Area 3 just north of Yellowstone Park , whose resident wolves never got over the divide into the Yellowstone River settled land or came anywhere near cattle.
Montana’s wolf management plan calls for a population of at least 150 wolves and 15 breeding pairs. There were an estimated 525 wolves and 37 breeding pairs at the end of last year.
They are taking a step in the wrong direction. I am sure most of this is because of hunters bitching about losing hunting opportunities because of wolves.
Jon,
Please link to the information you are claiming?
http://www.fox12idaho.com/Global/story.asp?S=12748185
From a Yellowstone newsgroup…
==================
Visitors with tents and pop-up trailers can again camp in
Yellowstone’s Norris Campground. On Thursday afternoon, the campground was temporarily restricted to hard-sided units only because two young grizzly bears had been seen frequenting the campground.
Initial efforts to haze or relocate the bears were unsuccessful. However, the sub-adult male bear was captured Friday evening. On Thursday, this bear had entered an unoccupied tent, slightly damaged another, and then bit a generator. Because of this behavior, the bear
was not a good candidate for successful relocation back into the wild. Instead, the 185-pound grizzly was transported on Saturday to Zoo Montana in Billings.
With the male bear gone, the young female grizzly left the campground area. She was later spotted causing a bear jam along the road near Roaring Mountain, several miles north of Norris Junction. The temporary ban on tents and pop-up trailers was lifted Sunday.
Visitors are reminded to keep food, garbage, barbecue grills and other attractants stored in hard-sided vehicles or bear-proof food storage boxes when not in use. This helps keep bears from becoming conditioned to human foods, and helps keep park visitors and their property safe. Bear sightings should be reported to the nearest visitor center or ranger station as soon as possible.
I think it is good to keep Yellowstone grizzlies in zoos to make sure the genetics are preserved but zoos may soon fill up. Why couldn’t they move gizzles that have been conditioned to humans to the wilderness areas of central Idaho…where there are no humans?
Because Dirk Kempthorne got the folks all riled up against having “those flesh eating carnivores” in Idaho.
Aggressive Whitefish bear killed
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_e2a89152-8642-11df-887e-001cc4c03286.html
It’s sort of sad that most Americans are now illiterate in terms of being able to identify the native wildlife where they live. (I’m such a snob.)
As Oil Industry Fights a Tax, It Reaps Subsidies
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
_____________
Agency Agreed Wildlife Risk From Oil Was ‘Low’
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/us/06wildlife.html?ref=us
http://www.keci.com/Missoula-reacts-to-increased-wolf-quota/7628655
Jon,
Could you please link to the information that says, Montana wants to manage down to a population of 150 as you claimed yesterday, I have searched for hours and have not found the information…if your going to make the claim, please cite your source, because I have not heard this at all in the many meetings with FWP that I have attended…
And I will add, I am not against wolves, but I am not happy right now, with the decreased hunting opportunities, and I have been talking to a lot of people, who are of the mind to shoot them and leave them lay…this is not going to be a pretty hunting season…it is at the point that bullets are against politics in the west and it will not be a pretty picture when it is all over…
SB, 150 wasn’t too off the mark from what was discussed. The article in today’s Jackson Hole Daily states that the “MFW and Parks Commission considered three different quotas 153, 186 and 216, reducing the population by 8 – 20%”. After 1,500 public comments, which Carolyn Sime referred to as “very diverse”, they have decided on a “186-wolf quota over 13 wolf management areas”. Other changes and parameters are being decided during meetings today and tomorrow.
And please to all my fellow wolf supporters, we cannot give up the fight for wolves rights here in the West. Wolves are wildlife too and they deserve to hunt this land as much as humans do. The hunters cry for balance and that’s exactly what we need, a balance between allowing the wolf enough latitude to survive and at the same time, have some hunting “privileges” left intact. The world changes everyday and we need to change with it! This is not 1910.
Cindy,
I am well aware of what the plans say are the minimum, but at no time has Montana stated, they are managing for the minimum number! As far as I am concerned, I feel that no matter what happens, there are going to be a hell of a lot of wolves killed because of all this crap…support them all you want, but remember those living with them have guns and the closest law is a long ways away, when it comes down to it..
And, I am sorry, in US law, wolves don’t have any “rights” at all. And no, it is not 1910, it is 2010 and virtually everybody, no matter what side of this issue they are on, has internet access and they can choose to listen to the pro wolf extremists or the anti-wolf extremists, right now, from what I see, the anti-wolf extremists are winning…
At the heart of this matter, the hunter matters not, until such time as Wildlife Services is reorganized, they will keep killing wolves, they are the problem, not the legal hunters! Even if the wolf is re-listed, wolves will continue to be killed in mass!
I think, that I would want to take my chances with one hunter, killing one wolf, than a Wildlife services group killing a whole pack at a time, lets see in Wyoming, they just killed a whole pack, including pups, in SW Montana, they have taken out whole packs, in OR, they are trying to take out the Alpha’s in a pack, The government is the problem, not the legal hunter that can take ONE wolf..
It is amazing, how many peoples focus is so far off base n this issue, I can tell you for a fact, wolves will be killed, do you really want them killed in groups, or take their chance with a hunter? The hunter can only kill one, Wildlife services can kill as many as they feel they need to, and they have a hell of a lot more resources than that hunter…
Save Bears,
The ODFW authorized the killing of two uncollared wolves, not the breeding pair. The male is missing:
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/2010/may/053110.asp
However, in response to a lawsuit USDA Wildlife Services has since agreed to put this action on hold, at least until July 30th:
http://www.oregonwild.org/about/press-room/press-releases/wolves-earn-reprieve-as-hunt-halted-1/
Groups try again to ban poisons used on predators
http://www.mycentraloregon.com/news/state/ap/1298233/Groups-try-again-to-ban-poisons-used-on-predators.html
Maybe can you make this a new post Ralph?
You mean sort of like Nixon did back in the good old days?
Outfitter group seeks investigation of I-161 signature-gathering efforts
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/article_b303952a-8a37-11df-96e6-001cc4c002e0.html
I, personally, hope this initiative makes it onto the ballot.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/08/1260510/montana-sets-hunt-quota-at-186.html
Montana sets it’s new quota for next seasons wolf hunt.
Another research angle from the closed ecosystem work done at Isle Royale- this one having to do with osteoarthritis – histories in moose bones from the last 50 years. Possible implications of juvenile malnutrition having late in life onsets of disease, with applicability to humans.
http://www.canada.com/Moose+help+scientists+unlock+human+arthritis+mystery/3251633/story.html
http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/06/outdoors/wolf_spotters_wanted_fish_and_game
not in this lifetime
Jeff E
I’d suggest folks don’t help.
The result of reporting wolves will be a radio collar put on a new pack, ready then to track and be killed by Wildlife Services to serve the interests of some livestock owner.
Early on in the recovery my wife and I were camping and had a wolf run by fairly close. I reported it and got a nice e-mail from Curt Mack telling me which pack it likely belonged to etc. I seen many since then and have never reported them and never will.
A good read for those who think that wolves are killing all of the elk.
http://www.examiner.com/x-37619-Environmental-Policy-Examiner~y2010m7d8-Wolf-predator-mythology-dispelled-by-wildlife-biologists
Instead, as documented by scientists and researchers, the wolf’s hunting behavior of testing their prey for weakness can cause elk to avoid open areas, move to higher altitudes, seek out more areas with heavy foliage for cover, or instinctually move toward human dominated landscapes where landowners may offer less hunter access.
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/gray-whales-battle-orcas-during-migration/264xqte4?from=en-us_msnhp>1=42007
Found this one interesting, the States are taking more and more steps to get rid of federal control of lands in their borders…
http://businessfacilities.com/news/utah-wants-to-grab-fed-land-with-eminent-domain.php
The Colorado Wildlife Commission voted on July 8 (yesterday) to authorize CDOW staff to create a formal proposal to reintroduce wolverine into the state. The plan would still need Commission final approval, and then legislative approval. Technically they don’t need legislative approval since there is a wolverine already in the state and they are not yet Federally listed, but they want the legislature’s buy-in. Restoration to Colorado would be a significant increase in the species’ range.
What great news! State legislative buy-in of a reintroduction plan might not hurt if funding becomes an issue during these lean times.
And here is a project truly worthy of some federal money for an important species on the brink, even though not ESA listed. I vote we use some wolf money on this.
Movie Trailer: Wolving Of America With Jim Beers the wolf “expert”
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2010/07/09/movie-trailer-wolving-of-america-with-jim-beers/
SPOKANE, Wash. — Idaho wildlife officials will allow wolf trapping and the use of electronic calls in this year’s wolf hunt.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_id_wolf_rules.html
Anything for a wolf hunter to bag his wolf.
Mexican Wolf Shot in Arizona
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/07/01/20100701mexican-wolf-shot-to-death.html
I hope the piece of crap responsible for that, gets what’s coming to them.
Mexico Wolf Step Closer to Separate Protection
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2010/mexican-wolf-06-30-2010.html
I wonder if this will mean a no-wolf zone in Northern New Mexico, Utah, and Colorado.
The problem is that ranchers have thousands of stock tanks in place that pump well water to the surface for thier stock. But the stock tanks have also vastly extended the range of deer and elk. So the natural boundry that once existed between Grey Wolves and Mexican Wolves is no longer in place.
Here is a photo of a stock tank in New Mexico. At one time, there were no large animals here because there no standing water for miles. That is not the way it is now.
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/15072077.jpg
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/jul/08/idaho-liberalized-wolf-hunting-rules-montana-expan/
“We already know that hunting is not going to solve the problem,” said Milt Turley of Avery. “They’re damn hard to shoot. They’re quick and they’re getting smart.
“I love to hear them howl, too,” Turley added, “…but I don’t want them eating my elk herd.”
As the comments grew heated, Idaho Fish and Game Commissioner Randy Budge urged the crowd to stick to facts.
“Some of you suggest that there are no more elk in Idaho. The facts don’t bear you out,” said Budge, of Pocatello.
Idaho has 29 elk management units. In six units, elk numbers are below population targets, 13 meet population targets and 10 are above target, Budge said.
Well Mr. Turley, what do you want wolves eating if you don’t want them eating “your” elk herd? What an idiot this guy is.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/09/1261781/se-idaho-site-of-regions-first.html
Preston, Idaho is less than seven miles north of the Utah border.
Can we assume wolves are in Utah now?
pointswest,
I made this into a full post, but to answer your question, wolves have been in the Bear River Range off and on for a long time.
Sheep were killed south of the Hardware Ranch east of Hyrum, Utah about 7 years ago.
Barker: No collaboration possible on wolves
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/28/1248233/no-collaboration-possible-on-wolves.html?storylink=mirelated
Montana set to offer wolf licenses August 23
http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/article.php/20100708154244237
I wonder how long the wolf hunting season in Idaho will be as their qolf quota is most likely to be higher than the 220 last wolf hunting season. What surprises me about Montana is the general wolf hunting season is not that long at all.
++What surprises me about Montana is the general wolf hunting season is not that long at all.++
The length of the season does not surprise me nor does it surprise anyone who is familiar with the terrain differences and tree covering. Besides, Montana hunters are the best of the best.
Elk, will you be hunting a wolf?
I have not even though about it yet. During the 4th of July, I was on the edges of the proposed Great Burn Wilderness that straddles the Montana/Idaho border, interesting place. I talked with an outfitter about wolves, bears, lions and ungulates. He is so pissed with the lion population that I was offered a mountain lion hunt for expenses and wages. Wish me luck in the draw but remember that regardless of whether I draw or not thirty hunters will draw. I do not have the money for two taxidermy jobs. I have never been interested in hunting mountain lions but if the price is right, it’s a new adventure.
Interesting read. Patty doesn’t mention in this article that her family runs a logging business.
“If elected in November, state senate candidate Patty Lovaas said she will seek to transfer management of most federal lands in Montana to the state”
http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/article.php/20100707161433622
Hmmmm…….
Sounds about normal, most of the states have lawsuits pending to do this, I posted a link this morning where Utah is trying to do the same thing…I feel change coming, for good or bad, I think there is going to be some kind of change..
Of course.
much easier to fill the local politicos’ bank account with “campaign contributions’ than the one across the country.
mindless bureaucracy..one of the biggest threats to our country
http://www.demarcatedlandscapes.com/2010/06/no-life-isnt-fair-but-this-really-sucks.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100708122617.htm
I think global warming is likely to make Idaho cooler and greener in the summer do to increased moisture flowing inland from the Pacific. Last year was one of the strangest weather years I have ever seen. It rained nearly every afternoon in July at Henry’s Lake. The mosquitos were terrible. Then it snowed in the Tetons in late August and again in early September. I lived in Ashton for 18 year and never saw it snow in the Teton in August or early September. I think the increased moisture led to evaporative cooling which allowed it to snow.
One of the greenest, wettest moutainsides I have scene is the north side of the Truchas Peaks in the Sangre de Cristo Range in northern New Mexico. Tropical moisture from the south comes up to New Mexico in the summer and it will rain most afternoons above about 8,000 feet.
The same might start happing in Idaho. I think it did happen last summer. In fact, I think the sudden change in climate might explain some of the decline in the elk’s population. Last year was a strange year. Heavy winter (the 08/09 winter) and a very rainy summer….and I still cant get over it snowing in the Tetons in August. It snowed down to about the 9,000 foot level.
Here is a photo of the typical afternoon clouds forming over the Truchas Peaks and getting ready to rain. This is what Idaho and Wyoming migh look like in a few years.
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/15072077.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3314757/Shark-pictures-show-amazing-killing-display.html
My killer whale can kick your killer shark’s tail.
There was a video I saw a while ago. It was a killer whale attacking and killing a great white. Anyone ever seen that video? It’s amazing.
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/wild/community/blogs/inside-wild?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&UID=a012510e-33b9-4c7e-b708-b747ec4dd594&plckPostId=Blog%3aa012510e-33b9-4c7e-b708-b747ec4dd594Post%3a2b93c53d-b607-4ed5-a3a3-6f5fb89adbf6&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
Proof that we need more wolves to keep those darn coyotes under control.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2006/03/african-wolves/morell-text.html
Ha.
Found this on the bbb blog. Some idiot yelling at Idaho fish and game commissioners at a recent meeting in Kellogg, ID.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2010/07/09/scott-rockholm-idaho-fish-and-game-commissioners-meeting-kellogg-idaho/
He reminds me so much of they yellow robot in my old Rock ’em Sock ’em Robot set I had in the 4th grade.
jon…next time you are in northern Idaho, you should give the ol’ Rock Head up and go have a few beers with him. It may turn out that you would like him. I’ll be he’s a riot when good and drunk.
Sock Rockem’
I’d rather be alone in a bar with a pack of wolves than with that guy. Something about his flat-top haircut and the size of him.
The woman in the introduction to the video is from the Northern Idaho Wolf Alliance.
In my view these are good folks, informed folks, who dare to stand up in meetings where the atmosphere can be pretty hostile.
You can contact them at http://www.niwa.us/ They are every bit as home grown as this Rockholm fellow.
Tha’s right Ralph. I give those folks a lot credit speaking up about wolves in a room filled with hunters.
SB, unfortunately its slanted towards the human species and how WE can benefit (whether it be our wants, needs or greed) when it comes to other species who to often lately, are just trying to share whats left of the space.
Nancy,
It is always going to be slanted towards the human species and when people realize this…
Never say “always” when talking about species on Earth. 🙂
My pet Norway rats say something different.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100708141620.htm
http://www.coloradocollege.edu/stateoftherockies/010%20Report%20Card/productionB.pdf
Here is a story about killing 58,000 stray dogs in Baghdad. Dogs are the very same species as wolves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iraq_stray_dogs
I had an Iranian friend who was in the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980’s who told me stray dogs were a menace in that war too. He said dogs could climb under the rubble of bombed building and find human flesh for food. One they’d eaten human flesh, they would travel in packs and attack and kill people…usually kids as is reported in this story.
Yeah, I was just reading that. What a disgrace of a country Iraq is.
Yeah…how misguided the Iraqi’s are. Since these are dogs and dogs are animals, they cannot possibly do evil. Attacking, killing, and eating kids should simply be accepted as the K-9’s normal, natural, and beautiful behavior. The stupid kids had it coming. They should have known that running like a deer or calling like a goose only stimulated the K-9 preditory instincts. If they Iraqi’s weren’t such evil human beings, they would spend hundreds of millions of dollars and train the three million children living in Baghdad to not stimulate the K-9’s attack responses and the stray K-9’s, brothers of wolves, could have all been saved and we would have had an additional 150,000 stray dogs on the planet! …but nooooooooooo! Being evil human beings, they just killed the stray dogs.
It’s a cultural thing with the middle east. Most but not all of Iraqi and Iranian people do not view dogs and cats like people in the U.S. I’ll never forget about 25 years ago I got into a “discussion” with the Iranian boyfriend of my girlfriend’s sister, who was questioning why she needed to take her cat to the vet- he was confused as to why you would do that-This just gives the Chinese more fodder when we complain about their mistreatment of animals- when so called democratic societies cull dogs.
Pointswest, we went over this already. Dogs are not capable of doing evil. If they are infact eating children, they are doing so because they are starving to death most likely and aren’t able to find food. I am not shocked by this. Iraqis have no problems killing each other, so why would they care about all of the dogs they shoot? I feel for the dogs, but a quick death is better than slowly starving to death.
So if people are starving to death and cannot find food, is it OK for them to kill and eat dogs? Is it ever OK for a human to kill an animal, or is it only OK for animals to kill humans?
BTW jon…we discussed this before but I felt like you lost the argument. You only repeat your jon-isms such as, “animals are incapable of doing evil,” as if you are some new kind of profit or oracle. You can never formulate any kind of reasoning as to why humans are evil and animals are innocent. You only state that this is the way it is (period).
I think you’re funny on this issue. You make me laugh. I’ll bet most other people think you are pretty funny on this issue too. Even the most hardcore animal rights advocates (quite a few on this blog) probably believe animals are capable of doing evil and think your arrogance is funny.
I have to ask one more question…please do not sidestep it as you have done with so many other questions. Do you believe humans are animals? …that is, did we evolve from a common ancestor with chimpanzees? At what point in time (in millions of year ago) did we evolve to where we were capable of evil while chimpanzees remained innocent? Please provide some reasoning behind your answer…if you are capable of reasoning. I mean, what exactly did our human ancestor do on that day when the first human evil act was committed? What was the first evil act in the world?
You should be able to tell us. You are so knowledgeable on this subject and with 100% certitude. You must speak with the gods, the angles, the spirits or something. Tell us what the first evil act in the world was jon!
Wait, I know…save face by NOT answering any of these prying questions and repeat a jon-ism.
I am pretty sure those dogs weren’t killed to feed the iraqi people. When you start claiming animals are capable of evil, you lose the argument plain and simple. No logic in that what so ever. The only being laughed at was you when you started calling animals evil. saying animals are evil, that’s a good one pw. Sure to get a few laughs.
I dare you to ask any wildlife biologist if animals are evil, prepare to get laughed out or get looked at in a weird way.
People on here think animals are capable of doing evil? Which one said that pw? I believe several on here explained to you already that animals are not capable of evil. Does them killing things in order to survive or defend themselves make animals evil pw? Animals are not capable of evil acts. They act out of instinct. When you start applying human terms to animals, there is something wrong with you. Explain to me how are animals capable of doing evil? When an animal kills a person for self-defense reasons, is that an animal being evil? To me, that is an animal defending itself plain and simple. Everyone knows humans are capable of evil deeds, that goes without saying but that doesn’t apply to animals and anyone with half a brain realizes and understands that, but you clearly don’t.
jon…now you are putting words in my mouth and confusing the issue. Please answer the question you sided stepped. What was the first evil act? At what point in our evolution did we cross over from being innocent animals and become evil humans?
http://www2.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/trappers_others_imperil_animals/57915/P10/
Apologies if this has been posted. “Dad, there’s a bear in the house…”
http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-baily-bear-bite-txt,0,1689060.story
Bear’s stomach was full of bird seed.
When people don’t bearproof their homes and garbage, it is the animals that pay the price. Such a sad world we live in.
In today’s Charlotte Observer:
Rare species faces growing threat
Red wolf repopulation effort in northeastern N.C. at risk
Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/07/10/1555761/gunshots-put-a-rare-species-at.html#ixzz0tNnw4T3b
Isn’t being evil go along the line of a human emotion?
I will ask you the same question that jon side stepped. What was the first evil act commited by a human?
In our evolution, when did we crossover from being inocent animals to being evil humans?
I know some people PW, that says this happened when Eve picked the apple!
LOL
I was hoping someone would bring up the Book of Genisis because in it, the serpant is clearly evil.
Found this nice video.
Woman loses arm to her own dog…
Evil and superstition are one and the same…both feed on the unknown. I see no difference in any animal behavior (including humans in this kingdom). Evil is an extension of Aryan master race …species… superiority arrogance. So there….
Bob,
When I was a kid in high school I used to make a little money feeding horses in winter. A horse trainer who had a ten acre field nearby used to bring up thorobreds from California and winter them with his utility horses, for lack of a better term “cow ponies.” These were a mix of horses with histories unknown to me, a sixteen year old kid just hired to toss some hay out into 12 x4 foot rectangular shaped feeders, knee-high, and made from 6 inch lodgepole pine logs, every morning before school. If the weather was bad I did the same thing in the afternoons. I had strict instructions – hay only in the feeders, and none on the ground and a precise amount per day, no more.
The trainer (who had a very successful career producing many winners) theorized he could toughen up these yearling+ racing prospects by taking them from their privileged, daliy groomed, upbringings in sunny warm CA, and put them in the cold of winter, with below freezing temps and little shelter from the weather, to compete with larger and more experienced horses for a meal. I guess there were on average 20-30 head, feeding at those rectangular feeders, with maybe enough room for just over half that number feeding together. About a third would be the scrappy cow ponies, a couple of Irish jumpers and the rest young pampered, and no doubt very expensive, thorobreds trying to survive in the presence of the others.
There was one particularly “nasty” black gelding who loved to mix it up with those young thorobreds. He was well nourished, but didn’t seem to eat more than any other of the cow ponies. He spent most of the time chasing these sleek colts away from the feeders. Ears back, head down, then up with a couple of quick side to sides, a nip on the but or withers, a couple squeels and then flying hooves. He wasn’t always content to go after the young ens. When he tired of that novelty, he would go after the other cow ponies. He loved to come after me when I would try to chase him away from the feeders. Or even when I (occasionally and against the feeding rules)would drop hay outside the feeders for the young en hanging back waiting their turn at the troughs. He could turn on a dime and just when you thought you were facing off with him, he would wheel, kick out with the heels about head high. Why? because he could to it, and he enjoyed it.
That horse was evil! I named him BZ (short for Beelzebub and his demonic behavior). Maybe a trained observer could say othewise.
By the way, if you came to the corral with bucket of grain he was sweet as they come, nuzzling up, soft whinnies…..until it ran out.
WM,
I just saw your response. I’d say your “evil” horse was a proud cut gelding…the same as the one I used in Yellowstone for 15 years. Everyone called him a sociopath, I called him Blondie, short for Blondie the bit.. .
Best horse I ever rode…but because of prior human insensitivities he was left to be very dysfunctional.
But all this “evil” usually is the result of very superiority tainted humans…whether “animal” or that other animal, humans. Just as domestic breeding bulls get very angry, the same applied to the Mandingo’s of USA slavery days. The amount of time “used” before they were fit for nothing in society was the same …about a year and a half. People sure screw up animals and “humans”.
Gelded a little later could be part of the explanation, but this horse had some other behavioral things going on, as well, as they seemed to go well beyond what a stud would do.
Speaking of neutering, do you do cut your buffalo calves or leave them au naturale? And, recalling an earlier conversation about fencing, you mentioned a simple 4 or 5 strand wire. Do you do heavy posts or ties, and hot fence, as well? Anything special with your bulls when cows are in, as in your own animal husbandry intervention, or do you let nature do the selecting for you?
WM,
To answer your questios; Any herbivore, domesticated or otherwise, will breed at the appropriate time if formed up in functioning extended family herds. By functioning I mean those family members are not fed with vegetation or grain out of that animals normal cylce of needing nutrients appropriate to those changing seasons.
So no, I do not castrate nor keep bulls out of the matriarchal components, ever…like all those very dysfunctional management cattle producers do. These folks are very stupid for having to do either of these labor intensive “practises”. The meat on steers is not as nutritious and by not allowing males with the family groups the females to not get to know these males well enough to accurately judge the ones they want to reproduce with.
And as for electric fences I do use them but only to keep the neighbors young cows and heifers out. Disorder seeks out order and since these stockers have no order they want to get in with my herd.
And as for electric fences and camps, the most impotant thing they did in Thorofare country was the ourfitters camps that used these bear “deterents” changed from swill holes to cleaner areas…. even to the point of having grasss in and around the tents and camp areas.
And why did these outfitters place them? Because it gave the clients a false sense of bear security.
Bears went under, over and around these electric fences to get to elk carcasses…but all is well in the mind of “enforcing” FS and game wardens.
And to use them in the back country away from the permanent camps….. they worked to keep horses in till griz spooked those horses…or a moose came through at night.
And as for packing electric fences for use around individual tents in griz country it works a lot better to pile brush up around these tents whether little baby rip stop nylon or canvas wall tents (the Indians did this all the time in temporary overnight camp situations in bear country. In fact I have found a number of these overnight lodges where poles were leaned up against tall fir tress and then brush piled three or four feet out) . Of course, unlike the Indians, I always scattered this brush afterwards.
Bears would pull people out of wall tents just as well as those little pup tents in Yellowstone. Saw lots of examples of whole sides ripped open and sleeping bags etc pulled out of these sliced like butter gashs.
One outfitter I patrolled on got so spooked he had all beds in camp pulled to the center of the room. still the sleeping bags were pulled out …but between hunts so nobody in them.
Oregon wolves saved from ridiculous kill order
http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2010/07/oregon-wolves-temporarily-saved-from-ridiculous-kill-order.html
An older article by the same guy from the link above.
http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2005/11/ranchers_overly.html
Ranchers should chill about wolves and spend their energy worrying about other more serious problems. Like, how much longer is the public going to let them get away with welfare ranching?
Many ranchers in Oregon graze their cattle on public lands. According to the “Welfare Ranching” book, federal permittees pay only $1.35 per month to graze a cow-calf pair while the average monthly cost of grazing a cow-calf pair on private lands is $11.10. So us taxpayers should have a lot to say about what happens on public ranchland, since we’re the ones subsidizing the ranchers.
End Welfare-Ranching on Public Lands / Revoke All Grazing Permits
http://www.rallycongress.com/saveourwildhorses/2526/
There is a lot of human evil in this story. It makes you wonder what the first evil act in the world was.
“Why would I go ask a wildlife biologist about animals being capable of evil acts? I just as well migh go ask a chemist.”
Or —– ask jon, he doesn’t answer questions either.
End public land ranching only to have the space taken up by flea bag feral horses. Thats sounds like a good idea….
jon…what was the first evil act in the world?
Stop asking me ridiculous questions that you know no one knows the answer to. It is not my fault you made a fool of yourself when you said that animals commit evil acts. If you are so certain that animals are capable of evil and commit evil acts, go ask a wildlife biologist what they think about animals being evil.
My question is not ridiculous. I have a very reasonable answer to this question. You do not and yet you are so certain about things good and evil in the human vs animal realm. It seems like someone so comfortable with their beliefs that they would repeat them over and over could come up with some kind of answer to a directly related question.
I do not go ask a wildlife biologist questions about good and evil in humans and animals because I do not believe wildlife biologists are experts in the field of good and evil. They typically have no more training in philosophy, theology, or religion than an accountant or a chemist might have. Why would I go ask a wildlife biologist about animals being capable of evil acts? I just as well migh go ask a chemist.
I think this is a dumb discussion, but if you are adamant that there are evil animals, then I think you must similarly believe that there are saintly wild animals that exhibit altruistic behaviors out of pure love, separate from any influence from natural selection. The reason that the words “good and evil” are not generally applied to animal behavior is that they don’t share human morals. That is the only measure of good and evil that we have, is it not? Is it evil for killer whales to torture their prey for an hour before killing it? To say they are evil is to project your own moral beliefs on them in a very anthropomorphic way. I have known animals that have struck fear into me or that I consider to behave badly, but to me most behavior is the result of evolution and natural selection, paired with an animal’s unique experiences after being born and how those shape its behavior. It’s the same with us.
Angela,
This last statement you posted, I will agree with 100%
You are not alone….
You rarely hear something about the Red Wolves here on this blog. Found something from May: Feds Investigate Deaths Of 2 Red Wolves In Hyde County
http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/93083539.html
From some of the lovely comments I see that a true “Southener” loves those “treehuggers” from “elsewhere” as much as some “Idahoans” and “Montanaans” do!
Here are 2 good resources for keeping up with red wolf recovery:
http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/
http://redwolves.com/web/index.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100709210823.htm
It’s amazing what people are willing to risk so that they themselves can get rich. As in, salmon. The Gulf of Mexico..
http://surf.transworld.net/1000107974/news/giant-crocodile-eats-bullshark-in-front-of-tourists/
Growing threats to red wolves in NC – good summary on the reintroduction program.
http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/07/11/1581075/rare-wolf-species-faces-growing.html
The article reads:
“While the official recovery goal is 220 animals in the wild in three different locations, some scientists think the peninsula has reached wolf capacity.”
So once again, it is not hunting, it is not public attitudes, it is not that the locals not sacraficing enough; the problem comes down to the amount of good habitat. I do not understand why so many pro-wolfers are not more active in trying to preserve habbitat and only decry hunting and ranching that often helps these endangered species.
“But Benston thinks the agency doesn’t fess up to all the problems the wolves can cause…’It’s bred into these animals to just constantly kill and not because they’re hungry,’ said Benston, who also is a retired state forest ranger.”
More unhelpful–and untrue–rhetoric from someone who should know better.
PW:
The article also says “Between 1999 and 2006 gunshots accounted for 32% of deaths among breeding wolves and six to eight have been gunned down yearly since 2007”, and goes on to suggest that one of the problems is hunters mistaking red wolves for coyotes.
The article also cites a firearms store owner who noted, “I’ve heard it said many times, when they see them they’re going to put a bullet in them because it’s ruining what they enjoy doing.”
Seems attitudes, hunters, and habitat may be problematic in this instance.
Or that they know they are wolves and are just using the I thought it was a coyote excuse to cover their ass.
I know people can be real idiots. I am not defending poachers and trigger happy thrill killers who call themselves hunters. I am saying the greater issue is habitat. With more protected lands, the human caused deaths at the periphery will be lower.
You know, in a circle, the area varies with the square of the radius (pi r squared) as where the circumference varies only with the radius (2 pi r). So if you quadruple the radius of a circle, the area is increased by a factor of 16 while the circumference is only four times larger. The larger the area of a protected habitat, the lower the periphery where conflicts occur. I few hundred thousand acres is not enough.
Not being familiar with the wolf literature, does anyone know of studies of reproductive rate vs prey availability for wolves? It seems like I read something about that somewhere.
Thank you for the red wolves info,WM.
Another great article on wolves by George Wuerthner
http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/wolves_and_oil/C564/L564/
Indeed, the best management of predators is exactly what California has done with cougars—eliminate all hunting of predators, except for those which pose a direct threat to human life and/or livestock. With regards to livestock we should require changes in animal husbandry practices to reduce conflicts such as immediate removal of carrion, use of guard animals, among other practices. Then and only then the only animals that should be killed are those that are habituated livestock killers.
The article reads:
“The reason for these unexpected results has to do with the social ecology of large predators. Killing of large predators like cougars (wolves) can skew populations towards younger animals. Younger animals wander more widely where they are more likely to encounter humans, and they are less experienced hunters. As a consequence they are far more likely to attack livestock, and in the case of cougars, even attack people rarely.”
I would like to see some science on this. For one thing, cougar attacks are so rare, it is difficult to interpret the statistics to mean anything. Also, California has had some erratic weather over the past few decades. They’ve had El Nino years that dumped 20 feet of snow in the San Gabriel Mountains and that destroyed piers along the coast that had been standing there for 100 years. This was followed more recently by warm dry weather and an epidemic of wildfires. Many of the wildfires are started by people and are near cities. This fact alone could account for the variation in the incredibly small pool of statistics for cougar “incidences.”
But I’m certain any statistical change, however slight and meaningless, could somehow be used to rationalize a hatred for hunters.
Also, wolves and cougars are two very different animals. Cougars have never been a real problem for civilization as where wolves have been a great problem and have been so for eons. It is interesting how this author (inserts) the word wolf in his writing to suggest that all the same priciples in his rationale apply to wolves. So he makes is implication but has done so with such craft that it can easily be denied later.
The guy sounds like some anti-huning, animal rights, lying, cheating fruitcake.
The guy who wrote this article is actually a hunter himself. He just disagrees with the attitudes of some hunters. He is not anti-hunting. He is anti-predator hunting which a lot of people are. Actually, I believe mt. lions were wiped out in some areas before. If they weren’t a problem, they wouldn’t have been killed off in some places pw.
george is also a former Montana hunting guide. This is going to be good. Tell me how a former hunting guide and a person who hunts is anti-hunting? He is just against hunting predators and he gives good reasons for it.
George worked for the same outfitter that I did, but 2 years yearly. The outfitters was a nothing, a thief and the hunts were glorified camping trips out of Cooke City, Montana. None of us has the experience or knowledge to guide and kill a legal ram in the unlimited areas. It paid $60 a day for 10 days. He worked in 1977 and I in 1979, maybe he worked for someone else later or earlier that I do not know. I have worked for 4 or 5 outfits and been a client 4 times.
“The reason for these unexpected results has to do with the social ecology of large predators. Killing of large predators like cougars (wolves) can skew populations towards younger animals. Younger animals wander more widely where they are more likely to encounter humans, and they are less experienced hunters. As a consequence they are far more likely to attack livestock, and in the case of cougars, even attack people rarely.”
I would like to see some science on this.
PW–I would like to see some studies being done on this, considering how much we don’t know about wolf management. Isn’t that a reasonable thing to expect from those managing them?
Elk –
Did this guy operate out of Cooke Pass? We rented a couple of horses & pickup to retrieve an elk on the Wyoming side from a short dirty desperate-seeming guy there who could easily have played a loser-villian in a western, in 1973 or 1974. I shuddered at the thought of somebody booking a hunt there . . .
I am sure that he is dead my now; it was Wisdom Pack Station in Cooke City. Most outfitters carry in the saddlebags needed equipment for the trail: human and horse first aid equipment, spare horse shoes, toilet paper, etc. One day we rode up to check on the horses and stop by a small stream for a rest. He opened up his saddle bags and there was mimi bar. Two liters on one side and mix, glasses and a very small cooler with ice on the other side. There were custom made saddle bags.
Interesting bit of psychology. Not strictly wildlife, but directly relevant to some of the back-and-forth on here, and more particularly with regards to the Anti/Pro-Wolf debates in the broader world outside the readership.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
NPR did a piece on this too–very interesting. I have often wondered about this behavior myself.
Someone posted this a while ago . . same subject, just a different slant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Linda:
When my wife and I were in graduate school we both had various spells of “impostor syndrome”, whereby one feels intellectually inferior to one’s peers (very similar to Dunning–Kruger bias you linked to). I learned later on that this is something nearly every graduate student experiences.
So much for sacred bald and golden eagles when money is involved. Killing horses to bait them makes it all the worse. Hope these guys get fined and locked up.
http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=12794522
http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/recent_wolf_news_heres_what_you_need_to_know/C559/L559/
No Elk Calves Killed By Wolves and Only One Possible Grizzley Kill…so finds a study taking place in Island Park:
TRACKING CALVES
Fish and Game study, in its second year, funded by Rex Rammell’s fine
JOYCE EDLEFSEN
Rexburg Standard Journal
[…]
Year No. 1 of the study showed a very low calf mortality of 10 percent, with one calf dying of starvation, one dying at the hand of a black bear and other by mountain lion predation. The study was conducted on the eastern part of Unit 60 that included the Henry’s Lake area of the Centennials to the Montana border as far south as the northeastern tip of Island Park Reservoir.
[… Year 2]
In early June 42 elk calves were captured and fitted with modified collars, Roberts says. The elk were pretty spread out within the study area.
“We’re monitoring the survival rate now,” Roberts says. Of the original 42, nine elk calves no longer have collars.
–Three calves were killed by black bears. (A grizzly may have bee responsible for one of the three. More study is needed to find out for sure.)
—A coyote killed one.
—One died after becoming tangled in a fence, not related to the collar problem.
—Two died of unknown causes. There was blood on the collars but no carcass to examine.
—Two collars were off, but there was no sign of predation.
Roberts says coyotes are known to “play” with the collars once they are off the animal, hauling them long distances from where the collar may have come off the calf.
And another researcher tells of seeing an elk cow pick her calf up by the radio collar and shake it until the collar came off.
After subtracting the mortalities and mysteries, that leaves 33 calves this week still being monitored and tracked through their radio collars.
http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20100714/NEWS01/7140325/-Loma-Bear-returns-caught-near-Carter-Carter-area
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7864871/Parents-of-baby-twins-mauled-by-fox-too-scared-to-leave-doors-or-windows-open.html
No…you have to take a boat and go on a tour. Will probably do it since my boy is a little older now and might enjoy it. I have been up to San Simion beach many times. It is to the north where elephant seals and harbor seals haul out and you can view them anytime and at no cost.
http://www.oceanlight.com/lr/full/17e6310c211829c1b9657ae99fe821b5.jpg
http://www.weather.com/activities/recreation/outdoors/topten/wildlifeintro.html
Not surprised at the 2,3,4,and 5 choices, but I would have never thought channel islands national park in California would be #1.
pw, do you frequent this national park? You might have mentioned it before, but I don’t remember.
pw, have you been to this np?
well, it’s mostly for the marine animals, which makes sense. Lots of scuba diving there too–I got to dive there once–very nice place.
no…see response about where I posted at wrong prompt.
That is…see response above where I posted about it.
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_c2097272-53e6-5688-a56c-8b076be4e050.html
my apologies if this has been posted already.
Jon
This closure is what what we have been talking about for the last several days on “camping in grizzly country”.
We spent yesterday watching a new fire in Grand Teton and the smoke from the Idaho Labratory one.
Here is the new Grand Teton fire, its in the popular climbing area of Boulder Town, no known cause yet:
http://gacc.nifc.gov/egbc/dispatch/wy-tdc/
Here is one of my images from last night:
http://dailyjacksonhole.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/fire-season-has-started/
http://www.cbbulletin.com/388566.aspx
Big news in salmon management. This is the reason we have so many sockeye steelhead, and salmon the last few years..
Here is a cool little video if you are lonesome for wolves.
Here’s an update I found on the Washington & Oregon wolf packs in the Northwest Sportsman. It is from July 15th. I’m hoping the Lookout alpha female turns up.
http://nwsportsmanmag.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/wa-wolf-packs-have-pups-but-lookouts-alpha-female-missing/
Austria once had an excellent WWF funded Bear Project in the Alps. Unfortunately almost all bears somehow “disappeared” in the meantime. Few have been found again, stuffed in a poachers collection. Hunting and poaching, with hunting easily tipping over to poaching, has a long tradition in the alpine regions and is still well embedded in folklore and culture. The latest victim: Bear “Roznik” shot and skinned http://www.merkur-online.de/nachrichten/welt/fotostrecke-roznik-erschossen-gehaeutet-842434.html
The article is in german language only and the text is meagre anyway but the attached pictures say a lot…….
Austria once had an excellent WWF funded Bear Project in the Alps. Unfortunately almost all disappeared in the meantime. Few have been found again, stuffed in a poachers collection. Hunting and poaching, with hunting easily tipping over to poaching, has a long tradition in the alpine regions and is still well embedded in folklore and culture. The latest victim: Bear “Roznik” shot and skinned http://www.merkur-online.de/nachrichten/welt/fotostrecke-roznik-erschossen-gehaeutet-842434.html
The article is in german language only and the text is meagre anyway but the attached pictures say it all…….
This is *sort of* good news for my favorite stomping grounds. An agreement to allow a natural pipeline to go through important wildlife habitat, but millions of dollars will be paid for conservation activities and RETIRING GRAZING PERMITS. I think it is a *decent* trade off, but of course it all depends on how the pipeline corridor is managed, etc.
http://onda.org/pressroom/press-releases/western-watersheds-project-oregon-natural-desert-association-and-ruby-pipeline-agree-to-establish-conservation-funds
Here’s a Wyoming political candidate who advocates exercising reason to get management authority over wolves. Think she has a chance?
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/article_0615a770-9092-11df-8f7c-001cc4c002e0.html
Nope
http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_b568cbca-9098-11df-be63-001cc4c03286.html
Looks like the money to local politicians pipeline is already in place
Dillon Tribune out Wednesday, article says Group headed by Dillon man files complaint on I-160 proponents
Montanans For Effective Wildife Management (MFEWM) made 98 claims of campaign violations including:
Failure to report “in-kind” contributions, Failure for Footloose financial supports to file proper forms for making donations, Failure to report use of corporate equipment – such as fax machines – which constitutes a contribution – . Failure to report the use of a RV in the signature gathering process, and so on………………
Tom Barnes of Dillon, chairman of MFEWM (and I believe I read somewhere, he’s also an official in the MT. Fur Trappers Assoc) claims Measure I-160 has the potential to deliver a devastating ecological and economic blow to the state of Montana (read somewhere that trapping fees bring in a “whopping” $100,000 a year)
MFEWM is a broad-based coalition of trappers, ranchers, farmers, wool growers, small business owners, sportsmen and conservation groups and concerned citizens across the state.
A blow to a grassroots group just trying to make public lands a safer place for pets and wildlife.
It’s obvious that anything that they feel threatens their strangle-hold on the public trust and public lands is a threat to them. Indeed, when you choose to make a living off of the publicly owned resources, you are subject to the will of “we the people” and established policies that are designed to protect publicly owned properties and resources from exploitation by those who choose to make their living from exploiting publicly owned resources.
But then, in recent years, it seems that no matter what horrid events and conditions that might emerge from exploiting public resources (the commons like air, water, public land) seem to be legally acceptable if you are making money from it. If you make money from some activity, it seems that it is sanctioned by the law because acquiring money is sacred after all… regardless of how it’s done or the consequences for everyone else. When “we the people” choose to take action to stop endangerment of our resources, these exploiters scream bloody murder rather than be forced to change their practices, like the rest of us have to. They want it their way only, to hell with everyone and everything else so long as they get what they want.
The act of attempting to discredit anyone objecting to their exploitation and endangerment of our lives is right out of the KKKarl Rove playbook.
What a bunch of nonsense. A trapper will tell you anything in order to keep trapping around, but it is infact a public safety hazard and it puts people’s pets at risk as well as other wildlife besides the intended target and maybe even children and adults. If I lived in MT and my dog got trapped and got killed because of it, I would make it my life’s work to go around Montana and throw away every single trap there is on public land. Trapping on public lands needs to go. how disgusting that iin 2010 we still have people trapping and killing animals for their fur. The fur belongs on the animal. These trappers care for nothing, but their trapping. They don’t even care about the fact that people’s 4 legged friends might get trapped or other wildlife because if they did, they would understand that traps don’t belong on public lands.
Trapping is indiscriminate, often killing endangered, threatened and sensitive species (e.g., Canadian Lynx, American Bald Eagle);
Traps set on public lands, without warning signs, directly endanger the adults, children, and pets that use the land;
Public lands trapping contributes very little to Montana’s economy. In 2008, trapping generated only $94,000 in revenue, while hunting and fishing generated just over 65 million;
Federal studies show that wildlife watching generated over 350 million dollars for Montana in 2006. It stands to reason that limiting trapping to private lands would increase the abundance of wildlife on public lands, and therefore increase wildlife watching revenues;
Trapping undermines sound wildlife management. Currently, no reliable data exist that documents the species and numbers of animals killed in traps;
Trapping kills public wildlife for fur and not for meat. Hunters and anglers are not allowed to sell the meat of wildlife and fish. Profit driven trapping for exotic fashion markets is in conflict with conservation and managing wildlife as a public trust;
Use of steel-jaw leg-hold traps is a cruel and inhumane practice. Animals caught in these traps suffer from fear, anxiety and physical pain for prolonged periods of time, often resorting to chewing off their own limbs to escape.
Why are you suddenly so concerned about women, kids, and pets jon? I thought these uneducated idiots were just standing in the way of grizzly and wolf recovery. Suddenly, they’ve become innocent victims of the evil trapper.
How did that happen?
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/radicalizing_the_wolf_issue_do.html
The elimination of wolves from Oregon during the 20th century is one of our state’s greatest environmental tragedies. Their return could become one of our greatest success stories. That won’t happen if the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife and the governor’s office continue to cave to the same fearful, vocal, special interests that killed them off in the first place.
Oregon’s wolves are a native species with a history of violent persecution. Even as science reveals the surprising, irreplaceable and positive role they play on the landscape, a small but vocal minority of anti-wolf interests continue to spread misinformation and fear.
According to Canadian scientists there may be a separate genetic identity of gray whales which are subject to harvest by Makah tribe in far corner of NW Washington. Numbering less than 200, this puts a bit of a wrinkle in future Makah harvests, and may raise the issue of ESA listing.
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20100718/news/307189989/some-gray-whales-have-different-genetics-study-suggests-makah
As if there isn’t enough to worry about:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20131
Well, if this is really what’s going on, it has the potential to solve the human overpopulation problem… unfortunately, it would end up killing off everything else, as we humans have been slowly doing ~ only in a far shorter time. Here we go. Maybe my adopted mantra for situations that annoy or trouble me is the “way to go”. The mantra: It doesn’t matter. (No matter what it is). So why worry? If it truly is what’s happening, it’s far too late to worry anymore, about much of anything.
Who is this author, Terrence Aym? It is always interesting how uncredentialed writers, sometimes for their own ego purposes, put people on edge.
If someone else, for example those individuals cited within the writing, had peer reviewed and widespread credibility it might add weight to the story. Rivkin’s theory is labeled as “controversial.” Gadfly is my first response. Can anyone offer anything more substantial on this guy’s credibility or his doomsday writing?
Oops!
The person who sent me the original link followed it up with this a couple of hours later:
http://io9.com:80/5585294/methane-bubble-doomsday-story-debunked
You, It does make you wonder about the geologic affects anyway.
Here’s a new angle on law enforcement.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/19/1273024/undercover-taxidermist-busts-illegal.html
Misinformation being spread about wolves and worms
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/article_8fd56070-82bb-11df-b5a6-001cc4c03286.html
Wustner is flat wrong that hydatid disease “caused the confirmed deaths of over 300 Alaskans since 1950.” I worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and hunted in Alaska for over 20 years. According to the Alaska Division of Public Health’s Epidemiology Section, there were 300 confirmed human cases of hydatid during that time period – not deaths. Hydatid disease is treatable, and very rarely results in death.
So, why is it that wolf haters constantly try to claim this worm is a threat to human life when infact it isn’t?
Misinformation about this disease being spread by those looking for excuses to hate wolves and by one Canadian scientist who apparently has an unfortunate history with a family member who contracted the disease in Europe.
Who was saying last week that anyone eating bear meet would die because bear meat has trichinosis. Oh! Wait! That was you jon. 🙂
I never said that. Go back and read the comments. What does bear meat have to do with wolves and worms pw?
jon…you’re right. It was mikaroone (sp?) and he only said it carried trichinosis and did not say it would nesessarily kill you.
I’m sorry.
Small NY town deals with coyotes attacking children. New market for wolf pee? Where is Jon Way when you need him?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ny-coyotes-20100720,0,5667256.story
WM,I live in an area which has coyotes.I don’t iive in New York state and nor would I be considered living out west,either.Since the rescent attacks by coyotes, we once again had to be reminded of their presence and to use preventive measures;don’t leave dog food out,bring in pets at night,bring in bird feeders at night for they attract animals that coyotes prey apon,and,not to mention,refrain from walking your dogs in the early evening.Time and time again we have to reminded of the wild life that we have in my state.Coyotes seem to manage to live anywhere.
http://www.wickedlocal.com/danvers/features/x1394802413/Danvers-forum-topic-People-and-coyotes-can-co-exist
If you’re afraid of coyotes and you want them to move out of your neighborhood, get over it; they’re not going anywhere, according to John Maguranis, Belmont dug officer and wild animal expert.
Killing a coyote isn’t the way to control the coyote population, said Maguranis. If someone kills an alpha male, then all the females in the den will go into heat, which leads to more coyotes being born.
I’ve always wondered if they had a season on coyotes if it would actually keep the population down.
Coyotes are killed year round in some places and it still doesn’t control their #s. Some just use that as an excuse to kill coyotes. Some actually enjoy killing coyotes. I myself see no point nor any sport in shooting a coyote.
In recent weeks, wildlife biologists have come forward to point out that numerous studies have proven that bounties are an ineffective way of controlling coyote populations because female coyotes respond by simply having larger litters.
http://www.muchmormagazine.com/2010/04/nova-scotia-government-brings-in-20-per-pelt-bounty-on-coyotes/
Jon, I have heard that coyotes respond to population decreases by having bigger litters. That is what I mean by having a season. If they were not killed year-round, would it eventually lower the population. It seems like when there is a mass killing like in those contests it will have just a short-term result.
++If someone kills an alpha male, then all the females in the den will go into heat, which leads to more coyotes being born.++
How many females are typically in a den? Someone can correct me but coyotes do not usually form packs as do wolves. They will do so sometimes when their main prey animal (such as deer) requires a pack to take it down, but most coyotes prey upon smaller game such as rabbits, mice, and birds and so in most or nearly all cases coyotes hunt alone. My experience in hearing coyotes howl seems to corroborate this. I have only rarely listened to a pack of coyotes howl but most often hear a single coyote howl at one time. I have heard them howl hundreds of times. Also, females only go into heat once a year. It not like you kill the alpha male and 25 coyotes replace him in nine weeks. So if most coyotes are not in a pack, then the killing of an alpha male should make little difference.
It sounds to me like someone with an agenda wrote the words quoted above.
++In recent weeks, wildlife biologists have come forward to point out that numerous studies have proven that bounties are an ineffective way of controlling coyote populations because female coyotes respond by simply having larger litters.++
Excuse me!
Could you try and explain the mechanisms of this. How does it work, the females count the number of coyotes they see in a day or hear at night and if it is too few it triggers hormones that releases more eggs from her ovaries? Can you provide some details and proof thereof?
I could believe when a female has plenty of food and has a high level of fat, there may be some biological manipulation of her reproductive systems, maybe hormones, that will increase her litter size. Her pups probably have an increased chance of survival into maturity when there is plenty of food too. Somehow I doubt it is simply that females “respond” to lower coyote populations. How does a 4-year old coyote know she is in a high or low population anyway jon? What is a high populaiton and what is a low population? Can you define this so any coyote knows what it is. You seem to be their brother.
Again, it sound like it is written by someone with an agenda.
Mmm…
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/20/1273977/petition-seeks-to-have-wolves.html
Center for Biological Diversity files petition with FWS for National Wolf Recovery Plan.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/mammals/northern_Rocky_Mountains_gray_wolf/pdfs/GrayWolfNationalRecoveryPlanAPAPetition.pdf
The topic has been talked about for some time. What will be the FWS response?
The above post is a link to the petition.
Thanks for that link Tim. I would love to see wolves all over the country, not just in a few states, but I am sure some wolves will be migrating into other states before long on their own. If humans can help speed that process up, I support that 100%.
Petition seeks to have wolves howl across country
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/07/20/state/n115657D12.DTL&type=politics#ixzz0uGSaLoci
All I can say, as a wildlife biologist, that really does understand things, I am very disappointed with both sides in wildlife management now a days..nobody seems to learn a damn thing and wildlife suffers because of it..this will do nothing but polarize both sides to a point of no return..stupidity rules in wildlife management now a days, and I am almost ashamed…
Trapped Bobcat Escapes From Chicken Coop
Just one of those little stories that make you smile somehow. What a committed bobcat!
http://www.kptv.com/news/24325313/detail.html
Reminds one however on the sad end of that grizz that had do die for stealing a few hens!
Wolf fight goes national w/ video
http://www.keci.com/Wolf-fight-goes-national/7735522
We need more wolves on the landscape, and we need a much larger landscape to support them, to ensure their long term survival,” says Michael Robinson of the Center for Biological Diversity.
The group wants to return wolves to areas ranging from New England to California.
They think current recovery plans are outdated.
But, Bridges doesn’t think that will happen.
“They can want it, but I don’t think the sportsmen of this country are going to allow it,” says Bridges.
http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2010/07/Wisconsininstallswol.htm
Intetesting idea, hope it works.
“Nature without wolves is not nature,” he says. “I have a deep-seated, fierce love of nature, and I’m very afraid that slowly, piece by piece, we’re losing it all. The most important thing to me in life, outside of family, is preserving wild nature. And wolves are in the center of that.”-Doug Smith
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2010/0720/Wolf-man-Doug-Smith-studies-Yellowstone-s-restored-predators
Third Wolf Shot: Confirmed
http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/third-wolf-shot-illegally-57-500-reward-for-information/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/7902773/Scott-Linsteads-high-speed-photographs-capture-creatures-frozen-in-time.html?image=11
Coyote trapper receives death threats
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-0702-wheaton-coyote-trapper-th20100701,0,6895139.story
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/chi-100707minion_briefs,0,5056954.story?obref=obnetwork
Killing coyotes is cruel and ineffective. New groups of animals will simply move in to fill the void left by those who were killed. Targeting the animals’ shelter and food sources is key to effective coyote control. Never feed wildlife, and make sure that trash is tightly lidded
We owe it to the animals whose habitats we’ve taken over to deal with them in the kindest way possible.
Little pudding fends of a pack of coyotes.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/witi-100705-dachshund-versus-coyote,0,3964715.story?obref=obnetwork
License to kill
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/opinion/22thu3.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
The hunts are not based on biology. They are political hunts, the result of pressure from ranchers, who rarely lose livestock to wolves, and from hunters, who believe that only they should be allowed to kill the elk on which the wolves feed. Problem wolves that kill livestock should be destroyed. But until scientists can determine how many wolves are needed to sustain a thriving population across the Northern Rockies, the hunts must end.
Wolf hunts alone will not harm the population any.
Hunts are the least of the worries for wolf populations…to bad many people can’t see that..
Tough but Threatened: Why Wolverines Need Protection
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-pacelle/tough-but-threatened-why_b_648217.html
People get a reminder of why not to pet buffalo, even in Yellowstone.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/38362110#38360166
oops, sorry. already posted.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38376048/ns/us_news-weird_news/
State Plans to Eliminate 170,000 Canada Geese
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/state-plans-to-eliminate-170000-canada-geese/?scp=5&sq=wolves&st=cse&apage=6#comments
Hey Ralph – someone on another blog I read called you “Saint Ralph.” So, when were you granted sainthood??
Virginia,
Those folks most likely use the term because their opinion of me is just the opposite . . . one of the joys of having a blog — attracting obsessives! 🙁
Yes, the bloggers were dripping with sarcasm. I think they feel threatened by you.
Virginia,
one could call it “blog envy”
Idaho: ‘green-fields’ elk hunts begin Aug. 1st.
http://wwww.examiner.com/x-8088-Hunting-Examiner~y2010m7d22-Idaho—greenfields-elk-hunts-begin-Aug-1st
Gosh jon,
Here was another article (on the same page that you pointed to) that you forgot to reference — thought I’d help you out
http://wwww.examiner.com/x-8088-Hunting-Examiner~y2010m7d21-Wildlife-activists-using-wolves-as-cash-cow
Here’s an LA Times article showing increases in marmot populations from global warming. The article finishes with speculation that it can’t last:
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-0722-climate-change-marmots-20100722,0,1426845.story
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/23/colorado.bear.car/index.html?hpt=T2
This is a pretty good story; mostly because the outcome for the bear was good.
The public comments analysis report for the scoping phase of the YNP winter use plan has been published. You can read the analysis of the comments and what the four propose alternative to be examined in the EIS are here:
http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/participate.htm
Personally I’m for plowing the west side of the park in winter but not specifically for commercial concessionaires, it will still cost too much for the public to access their park in an affordable fashion. I’m not for the roads being plowed if it still means that only those who can fork over $100+ a day per person can go in. I’d rather see the Alt #1 take place ~ which is to do nothing… that would eliminate all oversnow vehicles. I think that if the regular, hard working citizens can’t afford it, nobody should be able to go. Winter use for the rich only has to go away.
Salle,
My first winter of rangering out of West was 1974. I think we averaged around 4 private snowmobiles a day coming through that gate. Most snowmobile use was for govt functions in those days. And a lot of it was by govt. Theikels not smaller machines.
Actually, there are six possible alternatives.
Bob, I know folks at the West gate before and since the early 1970’s and they recall much the same. I know that the park was actually pumping clean air into gate booths and oxygen masks to the gate staff not so long ago…. And yes, I know that technology has improved the exhaust emissions for snow mobiles but only people who can afford $100+ a pop per day is too much. The concessionaires are starving the rest of the businesses in towns that are outside the gate(s), they are the only ones who have income during the winter. So the park is essentially only for rich people in the winter and there’s just something inherently wrong with that.
It’s my park as much as any other citizens’ and I would like to see the park in the winter without paying that much to have someone tell me how long I can enjoy whatever it is that I can see and all the other limitations that would make it not worth the cost even if I could afford it.
With appropriate travel rules, it could be a good fit for the public, the park and the gate communities. Besides, it costs far more to run grooming equipment EVERY night rather than plows ~ even if they ran every night ~ and plowing need only be done when conditions require it. Does the highway get plowed every single night to improve the pavement?
Anyway, I’d like to use my annual pass all year long rather than four months in the summer. Lamar is a six hour drive from the west gate so going there in winter is out of my time/$$ availability. When the park is open, all roads, I can get there in two and a half hours, provided it doesn’t take two hours to get from the west gate to Madison Jct. due to idiot jams…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38392857#38392857
A couple spent thousands of dollars on dog food to hand feed bears. They were hand feeding some of the bears since they were cubs.
5 black bears killed
http://www.king5.com/video?id=97442934&sec=594277
Advocates push for Animal Abusers Registry
http://www.king5.com/home/Advocates-push-for-Animal-Abusers-Registry-99047364.html
Its sad that it had to happen, I hope they throw the book at the couple that was feeding the bears.
Predator Trickery Documented for First time in Wild Felids in the Americas:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100708141620.htm
Just when you thought our species couldn’t get any stupider, you have a drunk that thinks he can take a ride and sit on a 16 foot 1800 pound crocodile named fatso in a zoo.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/drunken-australian-man-survives-after-attempting-crocodile-ride_100395887.html
video here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10611973
This is just pure stupidity. This guy is very lucky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ramree_Island
saltwater crocs are nt to be messed with
Bear Takes Kid’s Car For a Drive
http://news.yahoo.com/video/denvercbs4-15750663/bear-takes-joy-ride-no-joy-for-car-owner-21056466#video=21057727
Wrong Link…try this one:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/denvercbs4-15750663/bear-takes-joy-ride-no-joy-for-car-owner-21056466
U.S. farmers may face crackdown on pesticide use
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20100725/sc_mcclatchy/3575436_1
By the way Jon,
I did get your email, I agree, thank you
I took the family to Despicable Me in 3D this afternoon (great in 3D) and saw the previews for a slough of other 3D movies about to open. One is called Alpha and Omega and it is opening Sept 17. It is a 3D animation of a story about two young Canadian wolves, an Alpha female and an Omega male. They are thown together when they are captured in Canada and sent to Idaho to breed and form a new pack. The Alpha female, of course, is rejecting of the Omega male.
I really like these 3D animated movies. But it will be interesting to see how pop-culture deals with wolves. I think it is a very positive sign that they are the subject of a childrens movie. Hopefully, it is a good movie and will be popular. There are many 3D movies in the que for release in the coming months.
Here is the trailer for Alpha and Omega…
http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3345090329/
The litigants in the case against Wildlife Services in Oregon over the lethal controls on the Imnaha pack report that the WS has suspended those lethal orders until they have completed either an EA or EIS, which would mean to about the end of the year.
Big news in Utah. Rancher killed wolf after depradation of 2 calf (according to the rancher). Interesting is the the rancher did not know how to be proactive and protect his cows. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11722172&hl=7
It was big news the first time it was posted..
Report incriminates feds in fatal bear mauling
http://www.examiner.com/x-53313-Bear-Attack-Examiner~y2010m7d20-Coverup-in-fatal-bear-mauling
I wonder what will happen next.
Bear researchers gamble with lives of citizens
http://www.examiner.com/x-53313-Bear-Attack-Examiner~y2010m7d20-Bear-researchers-gamble-with-lives-of-citizens?
Some are trying to pin that hiker’s death on the bear researchers. What if signs were up and the hiker ignored them and still got killed? Would they still place blame on the bear researchers or would they accept that people are responsible for their own actions.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Trophy+hunters+bait+lure+wolves/3326922/story.html
Thanks for that link. Trophy hunters are vile human beings. Here is a comment that catched my eye in the article and I couldn’t agree more.
“Most British Columbians would be as sickened as I am by this so-called ‘sport.’ That article was some kind of sick eco-porn for those that like to hurt living creatures for the fun of it.”
These people who do this do not care about wildlife.
Wolves: The debate is seldom rational
http://www.hcn.org/hcn/wotr/wolves-the-debate-is-seldom-rational
Meanwhile, I continue to marvel at our ability to ignore facts about wolves while jumping on one bandwagon or another. A case in point: It was coyotes and not wolves that killed 23 lambs on a Bitterroot Valley ranch last month.
Because many hunters remain convinced that wolves hurt hunting success, Montana State University studied elk to discover why populations decline in some areas and increase in others. The findings were perhaps surprising: Elk were more bothered by human activities — including hunting and residential activity — than by wolves.
In any case, vehicles bump off more wild game than predators do. But I haven’t heard of any plans to eradicate cars or drivers.
Dailykos: Update on Recent Gun Incidents in National Parks
by cityduck – Jack Hanna confronted by three bears in Glacier – uses bear spray to diffuse the situation.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2010/07/jack-hanna-attacked-grizzly
A little fun: What do you think is currently the most dangerous animal in the State of Montana? Grizzly Bear, Wolf, Mountain Lion, Moose, Elk, Deer, Black Bear, etc.
Brian Schweitzer, just ask a buffalo.
Wrong,
The slaughter of bison goes back far longer than Brian has been in office, think of the guy now in the national political spotlight..
As far as the most dangerous…
I would have to say……….humans
the question did say “currently”
Of course Timz, you might need to travel a ways to ask a buffalo, because there is no indigenous buffalo in the US..
Ya, maybe you should suggest the Buffalo Field Campaign should change their name so your need for grammatical accuracy can be satisfied.
I have several times Timz…
Of course, I don’t think
The differentiation between “Buffalo” and “Bison” is a grammatical error, it is a species error, and I did bring that to their attention when I was working with them way back when..seems to me it was around 1998…
That was “is not a grammatical error”
Timz,
Just in case you have not figured it out, it is very easy to follow the preceding admins and make no changes, the current Bison persecution stems back a long ways before Brian was elected to office, in fact, I would suggest other than a political sound bite, Brian had very little understanding of what goes on with Bison..I first became aware of it in ’96….
It’s was practicing good sense on their part to ignore you and keep the name by which most Americans refer to the animal.
“the term “buffalo,” which dates to 1635, has a much longer history than the term “bison,” which was first recorded in 1774″
Damn,
I guess us biologists are just wrong…but it does not take smarts to identify with those in the main stream…
Maybe you should change that cutesy little handle to “Save the Word Bison”
Timz,
Maybe you should ****** it..if you want to be ignorant, who am I to argue..
Of course I could change me handle to Save Bison, as I have the same passion for them as I do bears…so you choose and I will ask Ralph to make the appropriate changes..
How about grow a set and use yor real name.
Sorry Tim,
As long as my lawsuit is pending against the state of Montana, no can do, after loosing my position with FWP and a good portion of my retirement from the Military, it would not be prudent to post on a public chat system under my name..
As far as growing a set, I will be happy to have a cup of coffee with you so you can ascertain who I am..
What is so sad, is I am actually on the positive side that most fight for, but some people just can’t see that!
is it people running into deer? then we need more wolves to save people! 🙂
Bison, Buffalo, I don’t think it matters much. A common name is just that, a common name. I don’t think that you can enforce common names, just scientific names. I happen to use the names interchangeably but I prefer buffalo, partly because it gets under some people’s skin.
Nice Jab Ken! LOL
Not an intentional jab at you BTW. I just find it amusing that people get a little hoity toity about it. If I talk about “buffalo” you know what I’m talking about. The minutia in this case doesn’t matter.
Elk:
Are you defining danger in terms of potential for injury if encountered, or the sheer number of incidents resulting in injury…or were you including economic or political “damage” in your definition? 😉
A deer in front of a motorcycle. Five deaths in the last 10 days
http://ravallirepublic.com/news/local/article_9b59133a-99b1-11df-a526-001cc4c002e0.html
No thanks, from your posts I can already “ascertain” who you are and could care less.
Typical
At least we are in agreement on the “Care Less” point..
said lets have a little fun, what is most dangerous current animal in the State of Montana. If both Saves Bears and Timz were in the state at the same time then they are most dangerous animals.
Hey, how about a sword fight or dual in front of the Polebridge, Mercantile after breakfast. I need an excuse to get up there before the end of summer. But first, I want to eat my hot fresh pastry and drink a good cup of Earl Grey before any negative action on their part.
Elk,
Your on, now will Tim show up? I have not been to Polebridge for a while now, sure could use a good cup and one of their pastries!
flu virus
“what is most dangerous current animal in the State of Montana.”
Humans.
Moose are killing the most people around Yellowstone…at least they were a few years ago. They are very short tempered in the winter when they are hungry and snowmobiling and cross country skiing was getting people too close to moose.
I was nearly killed by a moose.
My daughter in Idaho gives moose a wide corridor while she is hunting.
In 2004, on a trip to Maine, we traveled north of the Great Lakes. The road signs were interesting; I particularly liked the aggressive looking moose road crossing signs. Those for snowmobiles were devoid of drivers.
Interesting site regarding recent extinction of mammalian
families: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/extinct-the-dolphin-that-could-not-live-alongside-man-460667.html
It’s truly a shame that we humans are the reason why those animals are no more barb. Another animal that will be added to that list unless we humans start getting our act together is tigers. Tigers are close to being gone. India can’t stop the poachers and they do a terrible job protecting the tigers over there. Tigers are losing their habitat and food source to the people over there. 1 billion people in India and probably 2000 or less tigers left in the wild. Truly disgusting.
The most dangerous critter in the world, however, is the Ebola virus. If this was put into the hands of a mad scientist, he could probably wipe out 99% of the world’s population with it.
pointswest.
Is Ebola worse than small pox as far as a former killer of Homo sapiens?
I think Ebola is more deadly than smallpox. Many people are resitant to the smallpox virus and will hardly be affected by it. I believe no one has resistance to Ebola and 90% of those who contract Ebola will die. Ebola is less contageous however, but I am not an expert. Ebola is contained. It only lives in a few labs somewhere…as far as I know.
actually, ebola is not contained and there are outbreaks on occasion. I couldn’t remember for sure much about it, so I looked on wikipedia to refresh my memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola
Over on the YNET forum news is spread that Jim Cole, who was mauled by a grizzly bear near Trout Creek in Yellowstone, deceased.
To avoid any misunderstandings, the incident occured in 2007 of course.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/specialsections/40th-anniversary/Jellyfish-The-Next-Kings-of-the-Sea.html
Peter, there were a couple of interesting articles about Jim Cole in Montana Magazine May/June 2010, and he just published another book called Blindsided, Surviving a Grizzly Attack And Still Loving The Great Bear
Nancy, yes, I bought a copy of his book recently but have yet to find some spare time to read it. I know, he was obviously a rather controversal guy. The more I am interested to read, what he has to say.
Found on CNN today:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/27/georgia.alligator.frenzy/index.html?hpt=C2#fbid=0jM21Lx4mkB
Cool! They say, it occurs every few years!
I was going to post this but I see it is already here. Pretty amazing footage.
holy cow! I think I would have stayed out of the water, boat or not!
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/27/1282590/payette-aims-to-cut-sheep-grazing.html
I”ll believe it when I see it
http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/07/28/rockybarker/payette_supervisor_decides_end_sheep_grazing_bighorn_country#ixzz0uzGDFKkv
Right! Thanks for both posts, I had been wondering when and what the ruling was going to be.
Bear spray works again…
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_95a65ef2-99e8-11df-8500-001cc4c03286.html
Leaping deer injures cyclist in Glacier Park
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_7c0ccbf6-99ee-11df-af11-001cc4c03286.html
The Wildlife Society will call for increased gender, racial, and cultural diversity in wildlife managers at the plenary session of the upcoming annual meeting in Snowbird, UT:
“Biodiversity is indeed critically important regarding our wildlife populations and their habitats. But, given the demographic trends of the population of the United States, diversity of the workforce of natural resources biologists and managers also is critically important.
Wildlife professionals need to continue to be aggressive in recruiting qualified individuals that ensure that the gender, racial, and cultural diversity of wildlife biologists and … It’s important to recognize that this issue extends to not just race, but culture, as wildlife resources and their habitats are viewed and valued differently by the cultures of our global society.”
http://www.wildlifesociety.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=66
A bear mauling in Cooke City with a poosible death. I spent the earthquake of 1959 in this campground and have stayed there many times since.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_21d02556-9a58-11df-b1f3-001cc4c03286.html
Ugh! Plankton down 50%. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100728/ap_on_sc/us_sci_declining_plankton
Wolf pup found in Lower Michigan near Cheboygan….I guess there is at least one breeding pair.
Here’s link to article:
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100728/METRO/7280343/1020/nation
“The discovery shows wolves are recovering in the area and need to be managed, said state officials.”
How unfortunate that this is the first line of thought. It indicates the reality human species-centric hubris preempts rational thought.
Salle:
I had a similar reaction. Finally a breeding pair in the LP and their first reaction is, to paraphrase, “we better start killing ’em.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/28/earlyshow/main6720870.shtml
Interivew with Jack Hanna about his bear attack.
BEAR TALK INFORMS RESIDENTS ABOUT MONTANA’S BEARS
http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/Bear-Talk-Informs-Residents-About-Montanas-Bears-99205014.html
“I’m actually quite amazed of the amount of people that don’t really know anything about them even Montana residents. So, I think it’s kind of important, especially now as they come out into the prairie and to the big towns. Grizzly bears have a large hump over their shoulders and that’s developed muscle that they use when they dig for their food. The black bears don’t really dig for their food, so they don’t have that hump,” Ranger Intern, Hannah Sylling says.
Chiwawian Bear Dog saves couple from black bear.
http://www.king5.com/video?id=99442504&sec=548932
How established is the salmon recovery?
http://www.wildsalmon.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=288&Itemid=77
Breach the 4 lower snake dams, remove dams on the malheur, upper snake, and upper columbia and provide passage past grand coulee and see what could really happen. What is called a good year and what it should be are 2 completely different things.
Park Biologist Wards Off Charging Bear With Spray
By Gus Martinez, Bay District Ranger
July 30, 2010
Park biologist Craig Murdoch was conducting a fisheries survey on the Bartlett River trail late on the morning of July 27th. While hiking along the shoreline of the river, he heard movement in the grass across the river from him, a distance of about 150 feet. As he turned to see what was making the noise, he saw a full grown brown bear charging towards him. Murdoch yelled at the bear and grabbed for his bear spray, which was in his backpack. The bear continued its charge and got within about 15 feet when Murdoch sprayed him. The bear veered away, continued running into the woods, and did not return for a second pass. The Bartlett River trail is temporarily closed until a full assessment of the area can be conducted. This is the first documented behavior of this type by brown bears along this river, although they’re in the area fishing for sockeye salmon. The park provides training for all staff who work in the backcountry in the use and deployment of bear spray, including simulation of incidents of this type.
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/south/payson/article_16c3bede-9b47-5083-ac4f-bfd899379ed5.html
http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/8939745/article-No-charges-filed-in-Denali-grizzly-bear-shooting?instance=home_news_window_left_top_3
JACKSON HOLE RANCHES AT POVERTY PRICES.
Hard times have hit Teton County, WY, the wealthiest county in the USA. Ranches that once sold for as much as $60 million are now selling for a fraction of previous values.
The historic Forbes Ranch was listed today for a measly $12 million. …the price of a condo on Wilshire Blvd here in Los Angeles.
Worse, the Teton Valley Ranch is going on the auction block. Parcel I is being auctioned with only an $11 million reserve. It was once listed for $29.5 million. Parcel II, originally listed at $17.9 million is being auctioned WITHOUT RESERVE! You might be able to pick it up for as little as a few million.
God help us.
Forbes Ranch story….
http://www.jhpropertyguide.com/jackson-hole-real-estate-news/330/
Teton Valley Ranch story….
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/auction-of-the-premier-and-storied-teton-valley-ranch-in-jackson-hole-wyoming-to-commence-live-on-august-14-98622044.html
F&G: Wolves not causing most elk losses
“In its August newsletter, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game summarized recent elk studies and found only a minority of elk populations are declining and wolves are culprits in few.”
About 30 cows were collared in each of 11 of the 29 management zones, including 5 of the 6 with declining populations.
“Biologists found that wolves killed significant numbers of collared elk in only one area, the Lolo zone along U.S. Highway 12 in north Idaho. Over the three years, the report claims wolves killed 20 percent of the Lolo sample, or about six elk. Three-quarters of the collared elk survived, less than Fish and Game’s survival goal of 88 percent.”
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/wood-river/article_64d3fe91-1afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html
This is somewhat at odds with the constantly honed and improved theme that “wolves are cutting through all our herds like a hot knife through butter, leaving only scorched earth.” At least it hasn’t happened yet.
This will be a slap in the face to the wolf haters. It does not matter what you tell them, in their mind, it is the wolves and the wolves only that are wiping out all of the elk.
Before wolves were reintroduced, elk populations were larger and elk stayed in the open, which is what hunters got used to, Creel said. Now, he said, elk may be acting like they did before wolves were eliminated.
Given time, Creel said, he thinks both populations would stabilize. He noted population sizes are only considered “good” or “bad” based upon arbitrary ideas of what the size should be.
“No predator has ever eliminated its food,” Creel said. “Change is always the most dramatic at the beginning, then population numbers settle.”
There is an ongoing elk calf study in Island Park. Some preliminary results were published by the Rexburg Standard Journal and I posted them here. I am relying on my sometmes feeble memory but of somethning like 30 elk calf deaths, only one was by a grizzly and none by wolves.
There were two or three unknown deaths.
Most of elk calf deaths were from coyote if I remember correctly.
I watched two coyotes play against a cow elk defending an already dead (by the time we got there) calf in the Hayden Valley. It was like watching a well practiced football team. One worked in close enough so the cow charged but she had not completed the first lunge when the other from behind was running full out for the calf and got as many bites as possible before she turned around and charged back and followed it off aways, while the other one raced in from behind for a bite or two.
Here is what a posted a few weeks ago…I was wrong. It was black bear that killed the most. It sounds like wildlife people had no idea what was killing calves until this study or ones like it. It has probably only been resently that the tracking technology was affordable to track so many calves.
=================================
No Elk Calves Killed By Wolves and Only One Possible Grizzley Kill…so finds a study taking place in Island Park:
TRACKING CALVES
Fish and Game study, in its second year, funded by Rex Rammell’s fine
JOYCE EDLEFSEN
Rexburg Standard Journal
[…]
Year No. 1 of the study showed a very low calf mortality of 10 percent, with one calf dying of starvation, one dying at the hand of a black bear and other by mountain lion predation. The study was conducted on the eastern part of Unit 60 that included the Henry’s Lake area of the Centennials to the Montana border as far south as the northeastern tip of Island Park Reservoir.
[… Year 2]
In early June 42 elk calves were captured and fitted with modified collars, Roberts says. The elk were pretty spread out within the study area.
“We’re monitoring the survival rate now,” Roberts says. Of the original 42, nine elk calves no longer have collars.
–Three calves were killed by black bears. (A grizzly may have bee responsible for one of the three. More study is needed to find out for sure.)
—A coyote killed one.
—One died after becoming tangled in a fence, not related to the collar problem.
—Two died of unknown causes. There was blood on the collars but no carcass to examine.
—Two collars were off, but there was no sign of predation.
Roberts says coyotes are known to “play” with the collars once they are off the animal, hauling them long distances from where the collar may have come off the calf.
And another researcher tells of seeing an elk cow pick her calf up by the radio collar and shake it until the collar came off.
After subtracting the mortalities and mysteries, that leaves 33 calves this week still being monitored and tracked through their radio collars.
Huntsman Springs Golf Course opened in Driggs recently. Some are saying it is or will be one of the best in the country. See the video on the Huntsman Springs page…
http://www.huntsmansprings.com/
This is a little independent YouTube video about Huntsman Springs with some info Jon Huntsman probably does not want you to know.
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/152551
Bear cub gets caught in a dip net…
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Husky+dead+several+more+dogs+hurt+Alberta+beaver+attacks/3278918/story.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,709345,00.html
http://www.krtv.com/news/cubs-of-killer-mt-grizzly-arrive-at-zoomontana/
Grizzly in Montana attacks was underweight, but still no clear answer why she mauled 3 campers
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/02/grizzly-montana-attacks-underweight-clear-answer-mauled-campers/
Female grizzlies on average weigh 300 to 400 pounds, but the attacking bear weighed 221 pounds. Her three cubs also were underweight.
That may mean that there is a grizzly feed issue this year and she, with her three cubs, was only the first to exhibit desparate and bold starvation behavior. It will be interesting to see if more grizzlies don’t cause problems as the lean summer wears on.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Alberta+ranchers+worry+cattle+boneyards+become+magnets+grizzlies/3352202/story.html
Wolf hating organization Idaho for wildlife wants commissioner Randy Budge from Idaho fish and game removed from his position.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2010/08/03/actions-to-remove-commissioner-budge-from-idaho-fish-and-game/
jon,
These people are quite a ugly crew. I thought Commissioner Budge was (is) extremely anti-wolf.
I guess you can’t be extreme enough for these people.
I thought he was too Ralph, but I guess some got offended by some of the comments he made in this video I posted a link to below. This was at the recent meeting in Kellogg.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t Budge a lawyer as well?
Killer grizzly’s cubs settling into Montana zoo
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hW9AVcpbcLNeWXKD0zYDz8s2A1XQD9HCA9280
Would have been better if they didn’t kill the mom and put her in a zoo to be with her cubs.
NM proposes more bear, cougar hunting
http://www.newswest9.com/Global/story.asp?S=12890483
Disgusting.