Irregular militia followers claim to be supporting the prison-bound Hammonds-
They began to filter into Burns, Oregon about a week ago. Participants in what was to become a protest parade through Burns and later seizure of a national wildlife refuge headquarters, numbered from about 150 to 300, according to several reports and statements on Saturday. The week endedย Saturdayย with the seizure of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge’s headquarters by a number of the more militant.
The event galvanizing the self-styled militia members and supporters is the scheduled return to prison on Jan. 4 of ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond. They were convicted several years ago of setting arson fires on U.S. public land. The Hammonds have already served the sentences ordered by a federal judge, but the sentences themselves were later determined to be illegally short. U.S. District Judge Michael Hoganย had givenย them the light prison sentences. Judge Hogan said that mandatory minimum five-year sentences were โgrossly disproportionate. Hogan wrote this as he was about to retire.
Prosecutors appealed the sentence, and the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the appeal.ย “A minimum sentence mandated by the statute is not a suggestion that courts have discretion to disregard.” So wrote appellate judge Judge Stephen J. Murphy II about the minimum sentence prescribed by the law the Hammonds were convicted by a jury of violating. The Hammonds report to prison in California on Jan. 4, 2016. So far they have not called for support from the militants and seem ready to report to prison.
Here are previous stories in The Wildlife News on the Hammonds.
Oregon ranchers indicted for arson wildfires and threatsย June 21, 2010.
Trial set for Oregon ranchers accused of multiple range fire arsonย June 4, 2012
โStriking testimonyโ in Oregon ranchersโ trial for rangeland arsonย June 13, 2012
East Oregon ranchers convicted of setting public lands afireย ย June 22, 2012
Public Land Arson: Ranchers finally get the prison time the law requires. Oct. 11, 2015
The militants are reported to include two of Cliven Bundy’s sons and two leaders from the April 2014 standoff near Bunkerville, Nevada.
Reports have been that the people in Burns do not want the militants around; but, on the other hand, one report said some townspeople marched in the parade.
– – – –
Updated information
Here is a statement from the U.S. Attorney’s office about the Hammonds’ various acts of arson who which they were convicted.
Comments
I disagree with your statement that the people who have occupied the Malheur NWR are not terrorists. A terrorist uses violence or intimidation (i.e., the threat of violence)to achieve political ends. Les Zaitz of The Oregonian has been doing excellent reporting on the arrival of the “militia” in Burns. Here’s an excerpt from a story on a meeting that residents organized with the “militia” members the night before their planned demonstration in Burns (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/burns_residents_confront_milit.html): “”I am scared to death,” said Shonna McKay, wearing a black t-shirt with “Harney County Stand Down” imprinted on the back. “Everyone here should know what your agenda is.” Another resident said locals would be left to “patch the holes” and “bury the dead” should events take a turn for the worst.” Clearly, the people quoted here are responding to what they perceive as terrorism.
Sheryl Hill,
Thank you. These statements are significant.
People are throwing around a lot of terms that don’t apply, but a judge will know the difference. These seditionists should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as should those who conspired to help them. Both are covered under The Law of Sedition:
“Typically, sedition is considered a subversive act which may be prosecutable under sedition laws. Under U.S. Code: โWhoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.โ
Even conspiring is covered by federal code. โIf two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.โ
http://letstalknevada.com/law-sedition/
I hope they stand down and disperse before the president invokes The Insurrection Act, but that may be their ultimate goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act
“We are using the wildlife refuge as a place for individuals across the United States to come and assist in helping the people of Harney County claim back their lands and resources,” he said”
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/armed-protesters-take-over-wildlife-refuge/37242232?item=0
Suddenly the “Trump Phenomenon” becomes clear to me, as explained by Bob Dylan:
“Those who suffer together have stronger connections than those who are most content” (Brownsville Girl)
Who are ones that have suffered here?
Suffering is a broad encompassing term. In these 2 cases I choose to define it as “stupid”
Here is what I know, the only thing that these people have done is prove that they have no regard for anyone but themselves. There are laws that govern this country, and they are not optional. If you don’t like the laws you can be a voice for changing them, and the magic of votes is that we all get our fair share. No one person’s opinion or belief is any more significant than another, not even when they are as brazenly militant as these people. Unless they follow the laws of protests, they belong in prison too.
“Malheur” is right! The fact that they took over a wildlife refuge speaks volumes. These people do not want wildlife or wildlands to be protected, but want the freedom to do whatever they want on somebody else’s land (since 1492).
And it’s environmentalists who always get the stick! It looks like arson and poaching have been proven done by a select few. I seem to recall reading something about environmentalists being blamed for deliberately contributing to fires over the summer – but it looks like the only proof are the modern day Sagebrush Rebels.
Environmentalists don’t start fires? Members of the Earth Liberation Front say they set seven buildings at the Vail ski resort on fire in an effort to protect the lynx,
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9810/22/vail.fire.02
Vandals acting in the name of radical environmentalism struck four car dealerships and several individual car owners in the San Gabriel Valley early Friday, setting fire…
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/aug/23/local/me-hummers23
But not all environmentalists are involved in these activities, and many do not approve of them. These people probably have done time as well, for their activities.
they went to prison, just as these arsonists whould
You throw out examples of arson as being a bad thing, and then you lament for poor ol’ Mr. Hammond the arsonist…very odd.
Yes, their motives are clear. Weirdly, I was just in Burns on Saturday, driving through. Did not see any evidence of this brewing yet though.
“Ryan Bundy told The Associated Press the goal of the occupation was to turn over federal land to local authorities so it could be used “for ranching, logging, mining and recreation” and free of federal oversight.”
These are their demands. How do they really expect this to end? Maybe they are hoping for martyrdom or at the very least, national press.
Well, it’s how this country was founded:
turn over land to local authorities so it could be used โfor ranching, logging, mining and recreationโ.
I would add ‘freedom to practice [and impose] religion. Theirs only of course.
In other words, to destroy federal lands until there is nothing left. They need to get out of that refuge like yesterday! Whatever they are trying to prove, this does not advance their cause in any way.
Perhaps we have begun to use the word ‘terrorist’ for all that we disagree with, but as a Native American woman I see many of these events through an apex with a sightly different angle. One of my friends just described them as Vanilla ISIS. While this group may not have ‘terrorized’ anyone yet, they will. Either their fire is stamped out or they will truly become a ‘Vanilla ISIS’.
I know from the bones and blood of all Indigenous people on this continent that came before me, that the people leading this country would have ‘made the sand glow’ in Nevada had it been Black or Brown people who armed and ready for a fight. That is the double standard I’ve witnessed my entire life.
I know from the history we carry that if it were Black or Brown people that had taken over a wildlife refuge and its building, the first words from the politicians, and the local, state and federal law enforcement would be that we were ‘terrorists’. That is step one: Define the image in the public’s eye so the public will have no sympathy when the order is given to our militarized law enforcement to ‘bomb the shit out of them’. That is the double standard I’ve witnessed in this country my entire life.
Don’t think so? Ask the spirit of the Dann sisters.
This has been my biggest complaint from the Cliven Bundy fiasco all along. We created a monster when the Bundy gang never faced any retribution or consequences. That monster is growing.
My thoughts as well…when black people were conducting REAL protests for basic human rights and to be treated like actual citizens in the 60’s, they were treated to water cannons, mace, and vicious dogs (among other things). These assholes need much, much more severe treatment, IMO.
An addendum, I need to add all environmental and animal activists to the groups that would never experience restraint from local, state, and federal law enforcement. In fact, they’ve already been labeled as ‘terrorists’ and are on terrorist watch lists. “Green is the New Red”. “Terrorist is the new communist” in my opinion.
It is the double standard that riles me, whether is against an Indian, Black, Brown, or those who dare to stand up and fight for the voiceless. There is a double standard in applying and implementing laws in this country. Always has been. Agencies like DHS, FBI, and the ATF hold no bars with some groups and let people like these White militias off with no consequences, or light consequences.
Yvette, what a racist statement. My wife’s niece married a good for nothing Indian…. it has nothing to do with the color of his skin and everything to do with his privileged attitude and upbringing that tough him nothing of hard word and social responsibility! He complains when his casino check is a day late as he can’t find a steady job because everyone is always picking on him for the color of his skin. On the flip side is my daughters best friends black dad whom grew up in a big family from Detroit. His hard work has brought him out of poverty. His hard work is something to be proud of and his family and children are all the better for it! He admits that any brown, red or black that is welling to work hard in this country is undoubtedly assure to be rewarded for that hard work ESPECIALLY if he or she has black, red or brown skin (as my daughter friends dad says)! Its comments like yours that are more of a problem to the black, brown and red community then racism itself. Just whom can we thank for the racial dived which has grown ten fold in the last seven years. Its exactly what he wants for its politically advantages for the race baiting selfish mongrel.
One of my native American high school friends (a successful teacher and athletic coach) also thinks it’s people like you that are more of a hindrance to the success of minorities.
OFN, the entire gist of my comment flew over your head.
There is no double standard!
“There is no double standard!”
I’m sure my Latina partner, her family, and all of my non-white friends and coworkers could provide you with a plethora of examples to the contrary. You’re an utter buffoon if you think there are no advantages to being white in this country.
+++
PS, Discrimination against the obese, oriental, woman, gay, redneck, Jew or any plethora of whys bigots look down their noses at people is never going end. To think ANY of those categories don’t get discriminated would be wrong and one would be a “buffoon” to think different. BUT, what is even more evil and racist is to promote a narrative that in this country, of all countries, one has more one of an advantage by being white than working hard is utter nonsense. In this day and age those that promote that narrative for political advantage are more of an issue to discrimination than discrimination itself. I am not alone, I stand with the likes of Ben Carson for you have no clue as to the color of my skin and any discrimination I may have experience in my lifetime.
“BUT, what is even more evil and racist is to promote a narrative that in this country, of all countries, one has more one of an advantage by being white than working hard is utter nonsense.”
I’ll tell that to my black friend next time he gets pulled over by the cops for no reason.
PS Again, Discrimination Against the obese, tattooed, woman, gay, redneck, Jew, blue collar, oriental, or any plethora of whys bigots look down their noses at people is never going end. In a nation where 350 million phones are recording everything, do you really think there is this horrific epidemic of white cops pulling over blacks for no reason….if you do I’m sure you believe in hands up don’t shoot. I’m sure you believe that a video sparked the Bengasi attack, I’m sure you believe that conservative groups were not targeted by the IRS, I’m sure you believe that ISIS needs a reason to hate others. I’m sure you believe in a big Federal government that will fix these inequities and I’m sure you believe that cops are killing blacks on at will across the nation.
OFN:
1…
2…
How long it took for Tamir Rice to be murdered. “Big for his age”. BS.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx
Dylan Roof, spends over an hour in a bible study with a group of 9 outstanding citizens before he murders them hoping to start a race war………the cops stop and get him a Whooper before continuing on to jail.
Sandra Bland. Profiled. She should never have been stopped in the first place. Watch the video of the cop turn around and chase her. The cops at that TX division are known racists.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sheriff-in-sandra-bland-case-was-fired-from-last-police-department-after-racism-allegations-10395101.html
“In a nation where 350 million phones are recording everything, do you really think there is this horrific epidemic of white cops pulling over blacks for no reasonโฆ.if you do Iโm sure you believe in hands up donโt shoot.”
The answer is yes, and the white man driving down the road in his middle class Chevy with his middle class pressed jeans with his middle class boots does not get to make the call on this one.
Interestingly enough, I have 2 adult nephews who are African American and neither one seems to have experienced the discrimination that one would think is rampant near Chicago given how the media reports it. And they grew up in a predominately white neighborhood.
It’s all about access to that opportunity. Growing up black in a white community provides access through better schooling.
That said, in the very same community, real estate agents, in a very affluent town in which I taught for a while, were under great scrutiny for steering prospective black clients away from that community, and into one where “minorities” we’re more representative.
Questions: Was this a bit of NIMBY? Was it directing prospective clients to more affordable housing, but not the same quality schools, and if so, another example of lack of access to a better education and opening of horizons for a future life, if not closed, at least dampened?
A predominately white neighborhood does not always mean ‘good’ schools’.
I will not deny there is prejudice in the world, I’ve seen it plenty of times. But I feel that it’s gotten worse in the past 8 years, not better. Between the race baiters and yes, they are out there and Trump and his idiotic comments, I just don’t know. Discouraging.
Not always, but you did bring up the blacks growing up in a white neighborhood…
Well, I brought it up as a contrast since there was all this talk of white privilege and black mistreatment. If this was universally the case, would not my nephews have encountered this type of discrimination, particularly having grown up in a neighborhood that was mostly made up of Caucasians?
Universally, nope. You brought it up. I’m not arguing, just rationalizing that things are different for blacks and whites, and anyone who thinks differently, is, I guess, entitled to their opinion.
Like I said, discrimination is out there. And that’s where I’ll end this conversation! ๐
I could have been clearer in whom said the “race baiting selfish mongrel” my daughters best friends black dad. I make no apology’s for repeating such!
Youre about as shallow as what you post.
Nach Uberprufung meiner Eintrage, Dank
OFN, you’ve shared a few things about your grandparents. I’m going to share something with you.
My mom is a 100% White woman who was born the year the stockmarket crashed. 1929. She was a fair skinned, blond haired, blue eyed girl growing up in during the most economically depressed era in one of the most racist, Jim Crow states in the union, Alabama. Various relatives raised her and hear sister, but mostly, it was her grandfather, who was a farmer. Fast forward to about 1972 and move over to Oklahoma. I attended a junior high in Tulsa that was about 85-90% African American. This was the period of highly strained racial tensions. There were racial riots at my junior high on a regular basis. We non-Blacks were always outnumbered and over powered. Word would usually filter out before a day of riots. Most of the White kids would stay home. I let my mom know of a supposedly impending riot and let her know most of the non-Black kids were staying home from school. I remember our conversation as, “If you stay home you are running. If you run because you are afraid you will spend your life running with fear. You cannot go through life afraid and running. I grew up in the South. I know what they (Blacks) have been through. I’ve seen how they’ve been treated. I’ve witnessed horrific things that done to them. If you had of had the things happen to you that I’ve seen happen to them you would would be angry, too. Right or wrong, they are just trying to fight back. You have to try and understand this from their shoes and you cannot run because of fear.”
How my fair skinned, blue-eyed mom, raised in Alabama, with her 8th grade level education grasped that, I’ll never know. But it is one of the things that has helped form who I am as a person. I get furious when I see injustice, whether it’s the Dann sisters, Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, working people in Flint, MI who’ve whose kids have been exposed to high level of lead, wolves, coyotes or cougars. I get angry because I’ve not self-actualized to a level where I can simply let the injustice go.
There is nothing more I can tell you or say to you. You see the world your way. I do not believe you will ever self-actualize to the level of my mother and have the ability to see the world from 180 degrees the other way. You believe one way, I believe another.
Yvette
Thank you for your candid revelations here, and thank you for your remarkable restraint with this poster. You are the better person because of it.
+1000 Yvette
Its apparent that my connections to Native Americans has escaped you. I find it interesting that my children have more of a reason to be racially bias victims than yourself. I will not raise them as victims and their self confidence is already paying dividends. What’s really sad is that your overton window is so skewed that you actually think that your items listed constitutes an epidemic and that they are all legitimate items of hate….. YOU don’t know what was in the mind of that officer when he pulled up on that 12 year old BUT, the one thing I’m sure of is that he didn’t pull up and think NOW I got a reason to kill a black kid.
Dylan Roof, I don’t know if the story is true about the whopper BUT, After reading his rights, I’d a feed the kid a steak dinner if it would have kept him talking and implicating himself! Obama, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have you right where he wants you! If you really think that the officers fed him a whopper because they were happy he did what he did…. your the reason Trump is leading in the polls.
Oh dear. I am no one’s victim. Not ever. Not for any reason.
Yvette,
ODF โNutโ is just that. His opinions, twisted logic and lack of writing skills lead me to believe he is a high school (or perhaps grade school) dropout with nothing better to do than be a troll. His writings are just rambling rants and of no consequence whatever. You are wasting your valuable time responding to him. His lack of empathy for anything other than himself is typical of a redneck nutcase and he has chosen an appropriate label for himself. He is incapable of adding anything of value to this wildlife forum so just ignore him.
BTW, I appreciate your thoughtful comments on this forum.
Rich, My typical post is a once over flat out sprint which is rarely if at all edited. If that make you feel more sophisticated and better than I …. so be it. It makes Immer feel better too and you know I’m all about making others feel better.
I’m sort of wondering if you think that those six officers (three of which are black & one a woman) went out that day in Baltimore just to kill old Freddie?
As far as empathy…. do ya have any for the current victims in Baltimore.
http://time.com/3905876/baltimore-murders-homicide-rate-record/
I’m sure in your mind it has nothing to do with race baiting and the policies of the Democrats running the asylum……because we both know only guns and police officers kill black people.
They have no right to that refuge: it is for wildlife and it belongs to the public. They are defending people who steal public land, burn it to poach deer, or run millions of cattle and destroy habitat for wild horses and wildlife, not to mention culling and killing all the wild horses. There is nothing noble about these people. They are bullies and anti wildlife, anti wild horse, and anti wilderness. They believe that whatever they want is good and should be allowed. Bullies, sociopaths, and once they start killing, psychopaths. This is however not to say that BLM is any better. BLM doesn’t care about wildlife, or wild horses or wilderness either. For them it is water, mineral and oil extraction, not to mention fracking. so can we put all of them in prison and start over and make public lands be what they were supposed to be? Abbey would not be proud of these counterfeit rebels.
I take great exception to your statement ” This is however not to say that BLM is any better. BLM doesnโt care about wildlife, or wild horses or wilderness either. For them it is water, mineral and oil extraction, not to mention fracking. so can we put all of them in prison and start over and make public lands be what they were supposed to be?” I worked for the BLM for 37 years and I can tell you that everyday BLM employees worked hard at protecting the natural resources it is held in trust to manage. Yes, there are improvements to be made, but I challenge you to find overall better managed lands in the US.
Second, for those who think confronting these type of individuals is the right decision, consider the risk vs the reward. Let’s learn from the past and not have another Wounded Knee, Waco and OKC bombing. So far these individuals have done no bodily harm to anyone and while they have taken over a vacant federal building and historically defied grazing permit requirements, they are like a “small scab on the body”, give them no attention and they will go away.
Gary, if you perceive my anger at the lack of equity between different groups of people in the way LE deals with these situations then it’s misinterpreted. No on wants another Wounded Knee, Waco, or Ruby Ridge. My anger stems from frustration at the inequity of the response to the different groups of people.
1. Where do we draw the line with our response? What conditions must be in place before LE responds with force?
2. Who do we respond to with force and who do we respond to wearing kid gloves?
3. When do we respond? How long do they get to ‘take over’ federal property with arms before they are met with arms?
4. Who responds to them?
5. If DHS and FBI have labeled animals rights activists and environmentalists as terrorists and put them in prison for long sentences then what do we do with armed militias that take over federal property?
6. Why are activists being placed in the secret prisons yet we can’t even get an arrest for someone that has flat out refused to pay his grazing fees for over 20 years AND takes up arms against federal employees?
My anger and lack of restraint is growing with age and it should be the other way around.
Vyette, you forgot one of the takeovers!
http://www.pchswi.org/military_hist/mil_vietnam/timsiebert_alexian.htm
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/officers-back-down-to-end-reservation-standoff/article_e24306f9-f271-52b6-99b0-264c141769f7.html
Not sure if these fit the narrative your trying to paint about inequities…..
Yes, I have to take exception to that, too. I’ve known many BLM Wilderness people who are and were among the most passionate Wilderness (and by extension, wildlife) defenders I’ve ever known. It can certainly be said of some, but certainly not of all, as a blanket statement. Just sayin’.
Yes. I hope they are made to pay for/repair any damage they have caused.
Perhaps if the Department of Interior ( to wit: BLM ) had shown some resolve and proven it has a spine back during the Bundy brouhaha in Nevada, instead of backing down and ceding the fight, we would not be having these words today.
Because if Interior/Obama admin don’t show some resolve this time around, expect many more brushfires and standoffs from irregular militias in the coming months.
The information is a bit sketchy. When I read “militia” I generally think “armed with guns”. After clicking on one link provided it seems there were six persons present “with handguns in holsters”. Still … armed. Sorry but that can only mean one thing: a not so subtle threat to use them if necessary. After all, they are part of the Bundy faction who brazenly threatened law enforcement officers with guns.
I perceive them as “terrorists”.
I do agree with Yvette’s statement, especially
“We created a monster when the Bundy gang never faced any retribution or consequence. That monster is growing”
Indeed.
Gail,
They in fact said they would use their guns if necessary, but hoped it wouldn’t come to that.
There are more than 100 of these goons at the refuge according to one of the people who is there.
“Yeah free to come and go and Ammon Bundy has the official number. It was more then 100” https://facebook.com/jake.kriegar
turn off the lights, heat, and water; than build a 12 foot fence with no gate. tell them they have no choice but to stay. see how fast the story changes
JE
Best possible address to the situation.
Could play constant Yanni music or maybe even 3 of Barry Manilow’s most obnoxious songs on a constant loop at high volume. Zap their electronics with EMP, and a few high intensity strobes.
There are lots of ways to make it uncomfortable for them. Bring in Manuel Noriga as a consultant.
In the legal realm and scholarship of conflicts, there is a term called ” Force Majeuere “. It basically means a conflict that erupts when circumstances escalate beyond either party’s control, and thus any preexisting obligations are suspended . This could be due to the presence of an overwhelming force , or unforseen events… man-driven things like spontaneous riots or labor strikes , or natural disruptions like earthquakes , hurricanes , and volcanoes going off.
These irregular militia rebels in Oregon seem to be implying some kind of ‘Force Majeuere’ to justify their actions and an excuse to suspend civil and legal remedies.
I’m calling BS to that .
Force Manure is all it really amounts to.
The manure has impaled the ventilator in Oregon. Now it’s up to the Department of Interior and other agents of the Obama administration to show some real resolve, so early in the new year but also immersed in a highly charged election cycle. Regrettably , Obama is set to announce new Executive Orders on gun control this very week , which will further inflame the Right Wing Rabble.
Not good. None of it.
You have another evil food producer off the range, congratulations, but remember, when you do this sort of thing you are rightfully going to get a protest.
No, I don’t agree with taking over the refuge, I do though share their outrage! The original sentence was enough to send the intended message to the rest of the food producing community. No family person wants to go to prison, even for the short three months given to this senior citizen or the one year given to his son.
You consider the rancher the terrorist, I consider the Ninth circuit the terrorists!
sedition |siหdiSHษn|
noun
conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.
Oh, Like Jefferson, Washington, Adams and Franklin. LOL
73 year old Dwight Hammond will likely die in prison, enjoy your “happy dance”.
Perspective!
Never a happy dance. I don’t wish ill will on anyone, or those who disagree with me. We may spout off, but when it comes down to it, would never want harm to come to anyone. I feel that I have come to understand more those who disagree with me by reading comments on this blog and others.
“Oh, Like Jefferson, Washington, Adams and Franklin. LOL”
All terrorists. All land thief’s. All slave owners. They are certainly not my founding fathers.
Perspective!
Mr. Hunter, I see nothing in these comments about raging against the Hammonds.
I do see expressions of concern about a modern militia that continues to sully the original intent of the function of a militia.
More than any other reason, this militia is positioning itself to do one thing – kill.
How are they not terrorists? They are doing precisely what we see and hear reported from other countries. And they are doing it, not as a benefit to the Hammonds, but to throw themselves into the breach of an armed conflict.
The situation with the Hammonds is unsavory on many levels, but it is being used as an excuse by these guys, and nothing more.
You want to continue to build the Militia’s Lisa , continue to screw our food producers with unjust re-convictions.
As reported by CBS, The Hammonds said they have not welcomed the Bundy’s help.
There are many like me who’s allegiance is to the food producers, but do disagree with fringe elements who support those food producers. We do agree with what makes the fringe angry.
You want larger militias Lisa, facilitate more righteous anger.
Entirely failed to answer the question. Nobody called the Hammonds terrorists, but that’s what you were insinuating. Anger is at the people in the building.
Rork, the Hammonds are being put in prison on a terrorism charge. Lisa LeBlanc did say “How are they not terrorists?”
Daryl,
I think it’s pretty obvious that she was referring to the idiots who are holed up in the building on the refuge and not the Hammonds, who appear to be rather unsavory themselves…poachers, arsonists.
Daryl,
First they started a back burn illegally and got in trouble for it. Then, because they are so brilliant, they didn’t learn from their first mistake and started a second fire on public lands to cover up poaching a deer! Not the sharpest tools in the shed, I’d say. Do we need to defend all ‘stupid’?
“You consider the rancher the terrorist, I consider the Ninth circuit the terrorists!”
Fortunately, neither of your considered opinions makes it so. In this case, the Bundy boys are promoting an armed insurrection against the federal government. Are they terrorists? They sure seem to fit the definition. And one wonders how quickly the government would have responded had the armed men occupying a government building had dark skin, beards, and Arab names…?
+ 1 JB. The same thought has been rolling around in my mind today reading some of the articles and comments here.
JB,
I think “terrorist” has outlived its usefulness as any kind of descriptive word because it is used so broadly, as use here gives an example.
Even as I argue this the Washington Post takes up the issue: Why arenโt we calling the Oregon militia โterrorists?โ
Exactly JB
Hammond Ranches Inc received payments totaling $295,471 from 1995 through 2012
http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A09419096
Hammonds are part owners of this coop too
Bell A Grazing Coop received payments totaling $282,846 from 1995 through 2012
http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A09418975
Ken, you forgot to post the amount of taxes they paid in that time period. payroll taxes, sales taxes, real property taxes, workers comp taxes, workers Federal unemployment taxes, state taxes, Federal taxes, State unemployment taxes, FICA, Medicare taxes. Are you that hard on others in the food chain that get breaks like the grocer that pays no sales tax on food items. Maybe, we should start to call them welfare grocers.
$295k/17yrs = Average of $17,395/year. One third of the $295k was paid out in 2005, for an unknown disaster – so it could have been crops or cows, not unlike other subsidy programs say in the Mid-West when a corn crop gets wiped out by hail.
Seems a paltry sum, and maybe some even involved keeping fragile private land out of production and/or as wildlife habitat. What is your point, Ken?
“You have another evil ‘food producer’ off the range, congratulations…”
Food producer?? Malarkey. I (and many others) don’t eat beef. Ranchers produce a luxury item sold at premium prices that society as a whole doesn’t need, but through clever marketing have convinced us we do. You’ve fallen for it.
I’ve seen 20 dollar steaks on the rack. How far would that go in the produce section? The latter being the logical option for the average family on a budget.
There are many facets to this situation. The rule of law. The U.S. Constitution. Environmentalism. Culture. Try to find the truth rather than emotion. Try to recognize all parties standing in this case.
Video and article
http://usuncut.com/news/armed-militia-members-take-over-federal-building-in-oregon/
I agree with those that have said this should come as no surprise. What did our government expect after letting these people thumb their noses at us in Nevada? There’s a perfect opportunity to round em all up here. Come on Obama, you’re a lame duck with nothing to lose. Get these goons off the duck refuge.
These so called Bundy libertarians are just thieves who forgot that the anarchy of French Revolution brought โThe Reign of terror” which is the normal outcome of revolutions.โ The rule of law is what makes this country successful and exceptional, not frontier justice. However for those who would bad mouth the Founding Fathers, which is really the same thing as bad mouthing the enlightenment. They should remember that without that spark of equality for all that has evolved from only for white males, to iclude the end of slavery, finally to the equality of women (I think we are still working in racism) should study the alternatives offered by various cultures which largely consider women, children and others property. Without a populous that believes in the enlightenment and respect for our differences the Arab Spring soon turns into Isil.
The other side of the story?
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/
Thanks Nancy, here is more
http://www.thefencepost.com/news/18847695-113/two-members-of-oregons-hammond-family-to-serve
Nancy,
I read this. The author takes the claims of the Hammonds as fact, but when they used these alleged facts to defend themselves in court, they were rejected by the jury.
These people were convicted by a jury, not a judge. A judge did sentence them, of course. The first judge gave the defendants an illegal sentence. It was much lighter than the mandatory legal sentence. That is why they have been resentenced to the minimum.
You people sicken me!
Daryl, I read the postings from yourself and Nancy & the rebuttal Maughan posted. It sounds like the same type of issues my cousins have had with regards to legal access to one of their leases / private lands via public lands. The issue (from what I gather) they had was with a access that they periodically used (during wet years) where the BML put up fences at the access point. The swift and vocal local response forced them to back down. BUT, no one was ever held accountable for their abusive wasteful actions. Was anyone ever held accountable for Item D on the Last Refuge article? I’m wondering if some of the things they (the BLM)did were disguised as protecting a non-endangered endangered species.
Daryl
I have long admired your photography and videography skills. You have several images that I’ve been interested in pulling the trigger on, but I’m damn glad I learned of your political leanings before I did.
I made that mistake in a gallery in West 20 years ago, and I won’t be doin’ that again……..
Does that mean you won’t be on here posting more of your felon-sympathizing nonsense anymore Daryl?
Oh sweet irony…
“The federal government seized this land from the Northern Paiute tribe, whose federal trust land has shrunk over time to a mere 760 acres in Burns, Oregon, where the militiamenโs occupation began.
According to Steve Russell at Indian Country Today Media Network, President Grant established the Malheur Indian Reservation in 1872, and it wasnโt until the Bannock War of 1878 that the Bannocks and the Paiute were removed from the reservation. Since then, the wildlife refuge has existed as an alternative use of federal land.
In other words, the only reason the militiamen feel they have a leg to stand on when it comes sovereignty over this land is because of the federal government they are attacking.”
http://bluenationreview.com/oregon-militia-says-feds-stole-their-land-turns-out-it-was-stolen-from-paiute-tribe/
Nancy, I read this a article a couple of weeks back as it was posted on another site by “Chandie”. It is very one-side for sure.
What I found interesting is the slant in the reporting such as the waters were diverted to flood out ranchers so it could be taken over by the federal government: “Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes.” No mention was made of where all that flood water came from – above average rainfall during the early 1980s that resulted in building the Narrows Highway higher to keep the road above water and open to French Glen, the Steens Mountains and other points south from Burns. There had been consideration of lowering the old outlet to the Malheur River to drain the water accumulating in the land-locked Malheur Lake Basin eastward into the Snake River on the Idaho-Oregon border.
I drove that road in 1984 and had to park on pullouts as the dump trucks put loads of material out for raising the roadbed. What had been dry land on both sides was flooded and made for very interesting and exciting birding along the route – like ibis and herons hanging out on flooded sagebrush.
Daryl Hunter,
Your comment to us that –
“You consider the rancher the terrorist, I consider the Ninth circuit the terrorists!”
– leads me to believe you have not been taking your medication. You have clearly jumped your head hobbles with that statement.
Dwight Hammond and his son are convicted arsonists and their behavior has nothing to do with producing food. They purposely destroyed hundreds of acres of public land along with the natural habitat for thousands of animals. They did so just to satisfy their own greed while carelessly putting the lives of firefighters at risk. Think about the potential consequences of that behavior! They also saddled the taxpayers and owners of the land with the costs to control the fires and future costs to attempt to restore the land. As a taxpayer, I would much rather have them behind bars than out starting new fires.
Yes Rich, we have defined your opinion of me, as I have defined mine of those who support this unjust re-sentencing.
Yes, lets build an even more divisive America.
cheers
Malheur is olde French for ” misfortune” or ‘tragedy’ , if anyone needs some irony to spice their stew here.
I’ve been reading through Ralph’s previous articles on the Hammonds. The entire story and background is amazing and interesting. They had their 13 year old nephew/grandson starting fires on his first hunting trip. He ended up testifying against the at the trial. He had distanced himself from this rich ranching ‘salt of the earth family’. What? I see a mini-series in the making.
These people fired on other hunters. Sheez. What does one have to do to be considered ‘salt of the earth’ in the eyes of the law enforcement, courts and attorneys? Please, tell me the secret.
What an interesting story. But, someone somewhere best get a grip on these white hat loose cannons. The Obama administration has failed on the Bundy fiasco and let’s hope they don’t fail on this potential firebox.
Folks might want to read this statement about the misinformation being circulated about the Hammonds.
It is addressed to the citizens of Harney County from the acting US Attorney of the Federal District or Oregon.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660399-Statement-USattorney.html
Now it is not only this but the whole world. Today it is Oregon and Saudu Arabia vs. Iran. And the last some days, ISIS, Syria, and Paris. Then there is Russia and Turkey. Now as for myself, it is just getting worse, and worse, and worse. Nothing is being done with more and more people all angry and cannot tolerate anything or anybody who is different then them. Just watch and all of this will not go away … we have been on the path of a full blown civil war now for somedays here in America … and possibly a Nuclear WWIII. Think when spring comes, the time has finally come to bug out to the woods and not come back for there will be nothing to come back the way it is all going … and happening so quickly. Hope for a better world is vanishing like a snowbank in the middle of summer. And the dark days of destruction and chaos are now being seen everywhere.
Think I have heard of these days a coming since I was a kid … it was then called Armegeddon.
Enjoy Life and See The Wilds While You Can!
Wishing Everyone Love, Peace, Hope, and the Best!!!
Also just one more comment … as all of this is going on in the world … what comes to my mind is that precious wild country in the headwaters of the Yellowstone and other wonderful deep wild country around where it has been like it has always been – wild and nice! Our human society wherever in the world is soooo completely falling apart and love and kindness is seemingly a cuss world and action now. But in that wild country, the grizzlies still roam, the eagles still fly, and one can look out on a undefiled (caused by us Two Leggeds) landscape. Yes Wilderness is the Salvation of the World like Thoreau said … can’t wait for a few months to pass and to return to that mountain paradise wilderness world. I trust them Grizzlies then people anymore it seems – rather they are a Conservative or a Liberal! Plus in what I have seen, we are too busy being on our computers and arguing with each other that not many people get wayyy back into some of that Great Wonderful and Wild Country! Who Knows how this Oregon situation will turn out … but when it is all said and done, that Headwaters of the Yellowstone hopefully will be just as wild and nice as it always has been.
Wishing Everyone the Best!!! Peace and Love!
“Our human society wherever in the world is soooo completely falling apart and love and kindness is seemingly a cuss world and action now”
Got that right Kayla!!
๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
Wish I could join you, Kayla.
Ammon Bundy said “God” told him to go to Oregon. Bundy is named after a character(Ammon) in the Book of Mormon.
He obviously comes from a family of religious nuts and should be treated as a nutcase. Take his guns away, lock him up, along with his father and brothers and throw away the key.
I read somewhere that the Bundy’s have made an agreement to pay their grazing fees in Nevada. Does anyone know if that is a fact?
This incident is already written up in Wikipedia.
Reportedly those at the MNWR headquarters are bringing in children – for a visit or as residents?
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_militants_in_high_spiri.html#incart_big-photo
It wouldn’t surprise me if these misguided, entitled, morons brought kids in to use as some sort of shield. They were willing to use women as shields in the NV stand off.
Bringing in kids and women are the same thing the people in the Middle East do to protect their terrorist actions.
The plot thickens:
https://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/fire-burned-about-130-acres-to-conceal-poaching/
To lighten the mood for a bit, #yallqaeda is trending on Twitter.
Taking over a federal building is a step up from taking an armed stance on your own land….or near your land. Maybe this will be the action to bring justice to the Bundy gang.
Okay, one more. I now see #Yeehawdists.
If they die as martyrs they get 72 virgin cousins in heaven, and a case of pbr
LOL!
Why is this building still standing?
I’m thinking a drone would work.
A statement from the Audubon Society. It’s good to know just what these yahoos have occupied. Hopefully, this will be over tomorrow.
http://audubonportland.org/news/audubon-society-of-portland-statement-on-the-occupation-of-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge
This is the result of a gutless administration who has let guys like Bundy make fools of them.
Some on here are probably quite familiar with the importance that Malheur NWR is for migratory birds. It’s new information for me, but the wetland and river restoration work that has been ongoing at Malheur should trump everything else, in my opinion. As important this habitat is for the Pacific flyway get Bundy and gang out of there.
Many federal, state, tribal, and citizen groups have been working diligently to remove the invasive carp, Russian Olive, and restore the wetlands. I’m sure many of you on here already know, but given what Bundy and gang are doing they surely are piling up federal crimes. Let the attorney’s start totaling the crimes they are committing. Get the best negotiator in the country to try and talk them out. The Bundy’s think they are on a mission for God (Ammon stated so) so negotiation may fail and if it does, have plan B in place.
Dang it, should’ve, would’ve, could’ve. Had this been dealt with back in NV in 2014 we wouldn’t be here today.
What a fantastic place Malheur NWR seems to be, and is listed as one of the most important migratory bird stopovers on the Pacific flyway.
http://iwjv.org/sites/default/files/harney_basin_wetlands_brochure.pdf
http://www.fws.gov/refuge/malheur/wildlife_and_habitat/aquatic_health.html
http://iwjv.org/sites/default/files/harney_basin_wetlands_brochure.pdf
http://usuncut.com/news/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-oregon-militia-takeover/
Nancy+++
A little more information on Malheur history.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/03/bundy-militia-musters-again-over-paiute-land-162939
Nancy, that is an excellent summation on the Bundy gang at Malheur.
Why the Oathkeepers won’t be in Burns, Oregon:
https://www.oathkeepers.org/the-hammond-family-does/
Several other newer posts there. Strategy and tactics talk from authors and commenters (some of them are studied), makes it seem like armed revolution is desired, and that they imagine they will be the heros of a winning side. Perhaps they expect the support of more common citizens or military – I don’t keep up with them enough to be sure. Current thugs viewed as something like the incompetent version of John Brown.
I think that John Brown analogy is good.
My history recollection John Brown says he was a hero for his cause (ending slavery) BUT, was let down by the very people he was trying to help. (slaves)
So, the Bundies cause (ending Federal Government abuse and overreach mostly in the BLM) BUT, was let down by ranchers they were trying to help.
So, I take it that you like the analogy because in the end slavery was ended? Your such a deep thinker immer….. I wish I could be more like you and less shallow like me.
Ah, the instrument of God’s wrath. God is on my side. Gott Mit Uns. Keep wishing.
Es versteht sich so gut mit Ihrem Bild und “persona”
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281892692249?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
I don’t understand why these people aren’t being arrested. I hope they don’t destroy and vandalize the building(s) and surrounding area.
This is a totally different scenario than the Bundy standoff. By the inaction (or half-serious action) of the government, and Bundy’s having grazed his cattle for at least 20 years illegally, I’ve always wondered whether this conveyed a type of ownership or an easement to him. What’s going on today by this Bad News group is pure lawbreaking and trespassing.
No lives are in immediate danger, & the refuge is mostly out of the way. I think the closest structure is a hostel that served as a military base & youth prison in it’s former lives. I think there is also a small shop or gas station down the road. Might be those places could be under threat, but I would think them safe for now. They would draw the full wrath of the community & Oregon if they threaten any private property. So the authorities don’t really have much of a press, they can take their time & plan things out. And maybe ignoring them is a good strategy, it’ll damage their egos. It’s winter so much of the wildlife is out of harms way, that could be a problem later on. A bunch of bored armed men in a wildlife refuge during the great bird migration is a bad recipe. So hopefully they’ll be run off by then.
I understand some are going into town for supplies. If the govt. is serious about low key, just prevent them from leaving and starve them out.
My vote is to drone them with tear-gas and arrest them for trespassing, breaking and entering, and also charge the ones from the Bundy fiasco that pointed guns at federal officials, which is a federal offense. Since all this is taking place on federal lands, the legal ramifications are much stiffer in a federal court.
Yes. Someone on here suggested fencing them in so they can’t leave. Cut the heat, water, and electricity. I’ll add to monitor them with drones. When one tries to leave then arrest them. Arrest anyone trying to get supplies inside.
It appears their goal is not so much to take a stance for the Hammonds or a stand against public lands; their true goal is to lure the feds into firing upon them so they can gain notoriety. They want to be heroes but are in need of snacks.
Since they are ‘prepared’ to stay for a year or more, I suppose none of these guys work, or offer anything of significance to the greater society. Maybe they are all living on welfare,disability and SS.
Ugh. I was hoping when I turned on the news today they’d have all gone home. I wish we wouldn’t let them bring in supplies, and I’m mad that they are disrespecting the place, and that it isn’t really that important to our leadership.
I read the article too – I’d be leery of aligning myself with a group like this – they want to exploit the land and when it is all used up, move on to exploit more land. Haven’t learned a thing or changed their ways since they came over, IMO. I’ve always been so impressed that the Lakota and others of the Black Hills will not take money, but want their land back. It would be a wonderful thing to have the treaties honored, and made good on.
I don’t consider anyone an ‘enemy’ – but the expression the enemy of my enemy is my friend isn’t always true. Sometime the enemy of your enemy is your enemy also.
http://www.opb.org/news/article/explainer-the-bundy-militias-particular-brand-of-mormonism/
This article gives some insight into the Bundy Gang of extreme Mormons. One of the gang calls himself : “Captain Moroni” from Utah. There is a photo of him in this article.
If the Bundy Gang had their way, all public land would be privatized. This would include all National Parks and wildlife refuges such as the one they now occupy.
If some of them were convinced of their righteousness, but had some other faith, or none, it would be about the same, just the symbolism and names would change. I am aware of some of the unsavory past, but I don’t want to use that against any faith. Maybe cause I’m in a minority in several dimensions (and have an odd first name) I am too touchy about it. It’s even letting me resist making a joke about the geese I saw flying saturday ๐
Daryl Hunter: Your self righteous point of view is replete with holes! Cattle production on high elevation dry lands is a joke. Educate yourself by reading about sustainable farming from such individuals as Wes Jackson, at the Kansas Land Institute, and Wendall Berry a farmer/writer.
I could be wrong but I do think Ralph captured the feeling of this thread when he titled it “Left over Cliven Bundy militants”
I mean, it appears the elder Clive Bundy is trying to distance himself from his son’s decision:
“Bundy’s father told Oregon Public Broadcasting on Saturday night that he had nothing to do with the takeover of the building”
Or just maybe, Clive was getting tired of supporting the left over militants (and his sons?) hanging around the ole homestead, where there was no action and got the bright idea of “testing the waters” (so to speak) in OR?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/03/militia-members-occupy-us-building-in-oregon-after-protest/78226600/
Such a weird situation.
Armed, there for dangerous, in any one’s mind. How best to get a peaceful resolution to this situation?
And also sad that this bunch of misfits can’t find better things to do with their time, like ending wars or addressing over population?
Nancy,
Excellent observation. Just how do these white goons live without meaningful employment that would preclude them from standing around toting a gun and railing at windmills? Intelligent independently wealthy individuals don’t hang out on someones property playing body guards so they aren’t well off financially. I suspect some of them are on the dole either working the welfare system, a social security ruse as disabled (physically or mentally), poaching, lifting other peoples property or leaching off federal or state government property as they are doing now. We all have to live somewhere so why not just commandeer U. S, Property? Bundyโs old man has led the way by showing you can get away with indefinitely using thousands of acres of federal lands as your own at no cost. Meanwhile, a black kid playing in a park, a black teenager returning home from the store and a Native American wood carver (John T. Williams) peacefully walking in Seattle, are fair game. Yes ODF โNutโ โ there is a double standard.
Does anyone know if the responsible law enforcement officers are even turning off the power and water or making any peaceful attempts to secure and protect our public property?
HEADLINE OREGON: ISIS SURROGATES USE PLAY FROM al-BAGHADI PLAYBOOK FOR INSURRECTION IN OREGON – As the ISIS leaders seek to expand Ummah in the Middle East to become a single interest controlled by them and apply intolerance to an ever widening control of land, The Cowboys of the West have found a love for the ISIS command and control techniques. The take over and control, including destruction of all things that stand for preservation of resources, is now the way of The Cowboy organization too. Reports say that back-slapping was rampant in the ISIS heartland when news of their surrogates, The Cowboys, filtered in that they had taken over what used to be publicly administered lands and buildings in the western U.S. Especially pleasing to al-Baghadi was news that The Cowboys intended to contemplate use of deadly force if they deem it necessary. Various al-Bagdadi surrogates in the West held news conferences emphasizing the illegal hold on the citizens lands and buildings may extend to a year or until the U.S. recognizes the sovereign ownership of lands The Cowboys decide is appropriate. Not much was mentioned as to how much change would involve the taking over of the West but leaked sources said schools would no longer teach environmental science, instead courses would be mandatory concerning cowship and eradication techniques of the Sagebrush Steppe environmental zone. The Cowboy flag? Yet to be sewn but rumors say it will have a silkscreen of Cliven Bundy surrounded by a ring of cow chips.
Ha ha! (wait…does this malign loons?!?)
http://theweek.com/cartoons/597319/editorial-cartoon-militia-protest
โI am pessimistic about the human race because it is too ingenious for its own good. Our approach to nature is to beat it into submission. We would stand a better chance of survival if we accommodated ourselves to this planet and viewed it appreciatively, instead of skeptically and dictatorially.โ
โ E.B. White
It looks like the TeaHadists who took over the bird sanctuary didn’t plan their insurgence too well. They’ve sent out a plea for goods and supplies with snacks and energy drinks high on the list. If you want to help these good old boys out here is what they are requesting:
Things we could use:
cold weather socks
snacks
energy drinks
equipment for cold weather
snow camo
gear
anything you think will help.
Thank you all for the support.
http://www.people.com/article/oregon-militiamen-accepting-donations-facebook
SMH! Can’t believe they don’t have toilet paper on that list. Just wait until that runs out. They’ll start using bird watching brochures.
What is snow camo?
Yvette,
Think the color combination of a white bedsheet with brown and gray paint splotched on it to blend in with a snowscape and winter vegetation. It’s camo purpose is to conceal, and from what who knows with these morons, though it is fairly easy to guess, unless they have become bird watchers.
WM, what kind of charges are these yahoos wracking up? If LE wanted to hit them hard there must be a slew (slough? ๐ of major and minor offences they could be charged with.
Rest assured there are a couple of Assistant US Attorneys going over the Code of Federal Regulations, some federal agency specific, for violations. Federal violations for destruction of property, conversion, trespass, theft, maybe even some things related to wildlife harassment for starters, if somebody brought an illegal weapon to the party that might raise some eyebrows and result in additional charges.
Wanna bet some of these guys already have outstanding warrants or tax problems from wherever they came from?
Wonder if any if any of these geniuses thought about what federal (criminal or misdemeanor) convictions for various offenses mean to their current and/or future job prospects?
Hey, how about a barter system, turn in your gun and get a happy meal.
They’re vandalizing – burning the refuge signs for fires. It’s a freaking bird sanctuary, for crying out loud! From the HCN:
http://www.hcn.org/articles/modern-sagebrush-rebels-recycle-old-western-fantasies
I read this and my eye quickly scanned ‘ararchist’, which I thought at first was antichrist:
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/01/malheur_militants_thieves_and.html
Sorry, that should say ‘anarchist’. The official word from Washington is that it is only a ‘local matter’:
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_militants_obama_adminis.html
And yet another perspective on the situation at the bird sanctuary. I did think about Wounded Knee (73) but this perspective by Chase Iron Eyes is a bit different.
http://lastrealindians.com/should-indians-support-armed-anti-government-standoff-in-oregon-by-chase-iron-eyes/
This article’s POV is perplexing. These extremists have absolutely nothing in common with native interests. The author would do better in simply advocating tribes to be more vocal, pushy, and angling for media attention (that other minorities seem to receive but not Indians) rather than advocating aligning themselves with nutcases who simply want to trash the land for their own self-interests.
Curious as to your perspective Yvette.
I disagree with him, although I don’t see his view as perplexing. The Malheur was originally reservation land for the Paiutes. I don’t know much about it, but it was taken away from them after there was an uprising called the Bannock war. The Umatillas turned on them and helped the U.S. There was also White encroachment on the land from what I’ve read. This is a constant theme repeated throughout American history. However, none of that is a legitimate defense for the occupation happening now. The most important thing now is that the wetland habitat continue to be restored where necessary and protected. It’s far too important of an ecosystem for the migratory birds. That refuge belongs to all of us; all Americans. Most importantly, the birds need it.
What he stated about the ‘what if an armed militia had defended Mary and Carrie Dunn’ is something I’ve stated on here several times. Almost certainly, the U.S. would not hesitate for a second to bomb, shoot and kill every last individual trying to protect them and their livestock. The Dunn sisters choose to fight in the courts and the land, according to the Treaty of Ruby Valley. It truly was Shoshone land, but once again, the American courts ‘gave it away’, because of White encroachment. (from what I remember of the case). That is just wrong.
I believe the ‘hands off’ that we’ve seen with the Bundy’s is only afforded to White militias “patriots’ cowboy types. Of course, we do have to think of the Waco and Ruby Ridge fiascoes, and while there is little public support and no militias for two elder Native American sisters, the is quite a bit of public support for the Bundy’s. It’s frustrating because I think the Bundy’s and others that threatened BLM employees should be in jail for what they did. From what I’ve read BLM employees have been harassed, threatened and bullied long before the 2014 Bundy episode. That is wrong and it should not be tolerated. I think Bundy should pay everything he owes in grazing fees, and that money should be earmarked toward restoring the habitat his trespass cattle have damaged. Seize his cattle and put him and everyone involved in their ‘takeover’ in jail.
I hope to see the people occupying the Malheur NWR building charged with every last charge that can be brought against them. Let them have their day in court then send them off to prison for a long time.
That’s where I stand.
I’ll add that many other species need that habitat, too. Amphibians are being hammered worldwide and their extinction rate is unprecedented to any other previous time in history; wetlands and riparian areas of streams provide habitat for a large percentage of species for at least part of their life cycle.
I fully support the NWR system.
The author of this article cites the webpage of The Conservative Treehouse as a resource for a timeline of “what really happened” at the Hammond Ranch”, who have a decidedly pro-Bundy/militia bias. No mention of Ammon Bundy’s half-million dollar Govt loan, etc. A narrow perspective to say the least.
Segment from tonight’s PBS Newshour: “What do the Oregon armed protesters want?”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/videos/#167240
Ol Ammon has certainly proved one thing: the nut didn’t fall far from the tree
http://mtcowgirl.com/2016/01/03/montana-militia-man-who-says-slavery-never-happened-takes-over-government-offices-in-oregon/
going to be 10 degrees by Friday night.
Not quite the same as living in Las Vegas area.
I think there is an old military axiom about starting a war in the middle of winter.
Here is what federal employees think of the government response to the Bundy Gang:
http://www.peer.org/news/news-releases/oregon-refuge-stand-off-latest-extremist-jihad.html
Larry Thorngren,
Thank you. All of my friends on Facebook who choose to comment seem to feel that once again the government is just buying trouble down the line by refusing to end this standoff in a conclusive way that takes a lesson to rightwing militants, terrorists, or whatever folks call them.
http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/287485-164463-militia-standoff-im-here-to-get-shot
Apparently Mr. Bundy is not against all government programs. I wonder how he’s doing on his repayment?????
(apologies if this is posted elsewhere)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/ammon-bundy-oregon-protest-sba-loan
CNN is reporting that the FBI has obtained 3or4 arrest warrants. Expecting changes in the status of events as this develops.
This is a must read. And I must never tick off a birder. Gawd, I love this passion! Apparently, some birders are very ticked off at the seditious act at Mulheur.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/05/40-million-badss-birders-just-declared-war-on-oregon-terrorists/
Rolling Stone enters the fray.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-dumb-and-the-restless-20160107
Priceless ๐
“Except Bundy will not be going home, after all. His next stop, if it’s not the afterlife, will almost certainly be in a cell next to serial poisoner Michael Swango, or Richard Reid the shoe bomber, in the supermax in Florence, Colorado. There will be no snack shortage there, although he’ll be getting them through a slit in a door. Maybe they’ll let him take up macramรฉ?”
I’m honestly not convinced any of these twerps will ever be charged with anything or, go to prison. So far, no one has faced any charges or consequences and that is since the Nevada Bundy 2014 episode.
I’ve wondered why heat, water, wi-fi and electricity has not been cut. I read it may be because there are ranches on the same grid. What? Let me get this straight. We can find a way to sneak in and kill Osama bin Laden and dump his body in the ocean but we can’t find a way to cut the utilities at a federal building in rural Oregon? I don’t believe that story. What is the FBI and other law enforcement doing? Leaving all utilities on so they can be entertained by their tearful videos? I no longer know whether to be ticked off that they’ve been allowed to continue, laugh at how outright silly and stupid this has become, or pity these poor blokes.
Apparently, one of their lead men took his donation money raised while inside the Malheur, and used it to go to town for a drinking binge stay at a motel.
FBI, law enforcement….hello? Can he not be arrested for the long list of federal crimes he’s committed?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/07/1467083/-Trouble-in-Oregon-as-one-member-of-Y-all-Qaeda-went-AWOL-and-allegedly-drank-away-their-donations?detail=facebook
I have never seen anything like this; from the 2014 junk that the Bundy’s have yet to face any consequences for to the take over of this refuge. Seriously? the guy goes to town and gets drunk with donation money; gets a motel room, and no one arrests him?
Cry or laugh?
It is becoming a bit surreal and unbelievable now isn’t it. I also read that the Arizona guy who I have seen on videos before has now put in a request that his daughters be allowed to visit (presumably for the long haul). After all, it is a peaceful protest (albeit with guns). ๐
From the guy who could always say it best, Yvette ๐
Interesting man and his observations on life. Also, not afraid to step on toes, and add to the interesting, that just like science, many will “cherry pick” what Carlin said. I would imagine that this 4.5 minutes of interview would not sit well with many. But as George would probably say, F_____ um!
Thanks Nancy, but I think we do have a stake in the future of this planet, and we have a responsibility. But in the end, the planet doesn’t care and she will win since she will recover anything we destroy.
Ha, he’s right – scratch the surface of a cynic and you find a disappointed idealist. ๐
Although I do think we should exercise restraint in our behavior, but we’ve (de)volved into a society that doesn’t feel it has to, and we rationalize that we don’t have to have any shame or other bad or negative feelings about what we do, and ‘we’ have a ‘right’ to everything.
Protest leader Ammon Bundy met with Harney County Sheriff David Ward, who offered to escort the occupiers out of the state as a way to end the standoff, but Bundy declined.
Bundy had left the compound with other occupiers in two vehicles to meet the sheriff at a neutral location.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKBN0UL2IW20160108
I suppose I go back to my first complaint before I am completely finished with this topic. Yes, there is a double standard. Because they are White men in cowboy hats and camouflage. << Opinion, and my opinion is based on how federal agencies have handled similar situations in the past.
When any kind of group goes onto any kind of property that they don't own and take that property over because they are armed with weapons they are not 'occupiers'; they are not 'peaceful protesters'; they are armed criminals and should be treated as such. But not the Bundys. They get offered 'safe passage out'. They've been allowed to come and go at will.
This wasn't funny to me in the beginning because I thought of how others have been handled by BLM and FBI in similar situations. It was funny when it became evident of how silly these people are. For a second I pitied them because of how obviously unintelligent a few of them are, but it is no longer funny or sad. It's not humerus to me to watch grown men run around armed with guns and weapons destroying our property, whether it's physical buildings at Malheur, or habitat for the desert tortoise, or habitat for migratory birds, and never face any criminal charges. It's our property and they owe us money.
WM is normally vocal in situations like this. He stated all kinds of laws that 'could' be broken when Rod Coronado began monitoring wolf killers; he didn't hide his disdain for Tim DeChristopher who did two years in prison for bidding on federal land in an auction that was later determined to be illegal. I had hoped WM would be vocal on the many laws being broken by the welfare rancher punks in camouflage and cowboy hats. This was definitely a time when we could use WM's expertise in the law. The silence has been deafening when it comes to armed White men destroying federal property. I still wish you would list the potential laws these men have broken.
"safe passage out indeed'
I just reached the F it stage. I wish we could sue the BLM, the FBI and any other federal agency responsible for failure of duty to collect the money owed us in grazing fees; failure to enforce grazing contracts; failure to protect critical desert habitat; and failure to enforce the law on armed and dangerous men who are breaking many different laws and damaging our property.
What do we have to do to get our federal agencies to enforce the laws on the books against White militias?
Drop off one Muslim woman in a hijab with a paint gun. Watch how fast the national guard and the FBI would surround that property with tanks and special ops guys. Think they would still care about 'bloodshed', 'Ruby Ridge' or 'safe passage out'.
I realize we don't want to give them what they want, which is to be a bloodied martyr, but can we at least stop the free passage in and out of the place and cut the utilities?
My rants and venting on this is over. It's not helping me in any way and it's rather toxic for me. I now have to let this go because the POS low IQ Bundys have had me pissed off since 2014. I guess I have to accept that this is how American justice works. 'Free passage' for some; prison or death for others.
This article is about the Paiute Indians that lived in the disputed region before the arrival of white Americans who claimed the green meadow lands in the Malheur basin for their cattle.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/08/malheur-armed-invasion-indian-lands
Try to think some happier thoughts. First, we really don’t want a show-down. Next, there is no rush, in fact it is playing out well, like a PR campaign. Their impotence is more obvious every day. They are making greater fools of themselves every time they speak. It’s making people near me notice in a good way – they are learning about issues they were ignorant of.
“It’s not humerus to me”……but my inability to correctly spell humorous is kind of funny. Spell check failed me with the funny bone.
Yvette,
++ I had hoped WM would be vocal on the many laws being broken by the welfare rancher punks in camouflage and cowboy hats.++
Actually, I thought I had. These guys are morons. I gave a quick summary of the kinds of infractions with which they could be charged by occupying a federal facility and destroying federal property. Think I even said there are probably federal prosecutors ready with what could be a long list of them.
While the nature of the crimes are different (DeChristopher was CONVICTED of FRAUD; Coronado committed no state wildlife/hunting law infractions though he certainly skirted them by “almost” harassing hunters), these obstructionists should be treated equally. Nothing would suit me better than seeing the responsible Bundy clan members and their associates (and active supporters) violating federal law being prosecuted to the full extent of federal/state law, and any applicable Harney County ordinances, and held responsible for any damages resulting from their acts. Speaking of damages that is a good way to segue into Cliven Bundy’s issues. I’d like this whole Bundy clan thing wrapped up in prosecutions and enforcement of damages judgments already in place for his trespassing cows in NV as soon as possible. I keep waiting for the good news.
This all said, each of the above examples are forms of civil disobedience. I think civil disobedience is a good avenue for change in our country, but those engaging in these activities need to accept that when they break the law there are consequences that they should be conscious of and willing to accept. The tragedies of past armed confrontations certainly frame the way these things are now handled, even though it tests the patience of some of us.
This Bundy crew doesn’t have the collective brain power to light a 20 watt bulb, but they sure could pull the trigger on their assault rifles and this would take on a whole new dimension which most would want to avoid.
Waiting them out is not a bad thing, and they are shown for the idiots they are as each day passes, and other groups and polticians try to distance themselves from their objective.
Sorry for the rambling thoughts but this Nyquil/Dayquil type cold medicine can make a user do that. Go Seahawks! Oops that is another topic and a sport we don’t to get into on this forum.
Thank you, WM! Me too: 1) Go Seahawks!; 2) I think this time many charges will b forthcoming (fingers crossed for justice); and 3) rork is right, a lot of other people are learning about the wildife/ranching/agriculture issues. That’s a good thing.
http://newsdaily.com/2016/01/pizza-rifles-and-tension-a-night-inside-the-oregon-protest/
it appears that there has been some culling of the herd
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sheriff-has-first-meeting-armed-oregon-land-occupiers-n492486
http://www.sltrib.com/news/3391135-155/utah-group-travels-to-oregon-seeking
I predict it will be over before kick-off on Sat.
http://kboi2.com/news/nation-world/oregon-governor-calls-for-armed-group-to-decamp-immediately
well, it looks like the politicians are going to take center stage so things should go quickly downhill from here for all concerned
http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-standoff-member-caught-drinking-donation-money/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/us/lesson-for-stalemated-sides-in-oregon-a-texas-standoff-without-end.html?_r=1
http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-militia-descends-into-fist-fights-chaos/
It’s Obama’s fault.
And, everyone who voted for him.
And where in the hell can we go from here?
GO BERNIE!!!!! ๐
Here’s an interesting article about the history of the refuge. I’ve had it with reading about the take-over also:
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/jan/08/these-photos-inspired-the-creation-of-that/
Here’s an ad that ran in 1920 (from the above article) in opposition to creation of the refuge. The tweeter seems to think it shows how far we’ve come, but it sounds like the same thing we are still hearing today to me:
https://twitter.com/starfocus/status/653998364825120769
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militants-have-accessed-government-computers-at-refuge/
Unfortunately, it seems the refuge hadn’t take steps to better secure their computers & cards. It’s reported that the Bundy’s have possession of id’s, passwords, & social security cards of refuge staff. And have used it to access their computers. Besides government files… Private info of the refuge staff, & likely the private information of any locals & citizens who’ve had business with the refuge may have had that information violated.
Game changer?
Haha. That’s great. If there is one thing the Feds take very seriously it’s the misuse of official government computers and information. This likely means they will not now be allowed to just ride off into the sunset. This is their biggest tactical error yet (other than, you know, trespassing and armed takeover of a federal facility).
This is their biggest tactical error yet (other than, you know, trespassing and armed takeover of a federal facility).
Ha! ๐
But the fact that this continues with nothing being done about it, and that ‘government overreach and too much of a percentage of Federally controlled land in the West’ is getting any media traction at all is very worrying. It’s obvious the tide is turning for our environment, and the government doesn’t care about protecting it. There are vast resources there just going unused – and as our populations continue to grow, they will be sacrificed. I can’t believe I have been around long enough to see this political pendulum swing, as I was here when most of our environmental protection laws were put into place by that unsung hero, Richard Nixon.
Because the dominant culture (and those usurped and brainwashed by it) cannot be trusted to tie their own shoes properly and honestly without government oversight, feeble as it is – it is the only thing protecting our diminishing wild lands from explotation. We can see protections are weakening by the day, and I have the scary vision of an asphalt- paved, pock marked, wasteland from coast to coast.
While we tend to think that ignoring the Bundy takeover rather than using swift LE action might be wrong, I believe it is likely to turn out to be best. After all it is like a kid throwing a tantrum and nobody cares. The real test will be the finish when they finally have to leave because they run out of money or succumb to in-fighting. They won’t be able to say they were forced out by the Guvment. I still have faith that DOJ will not leave it all to the local jurisdiction but in the end will prove to apply a quiet but very powerful tactic. So far I have been wrong on “Slavery advocate Cliven” but this is a different venue. Time causes egg to dry on their faces. At this point all I can do is hope I’m right.
I hope you are right, but the last thing I read was that more militia were joining them:
Militia Groups Arrive in Oregon to ‘Keep the Piece’ at the Occupied Malheur Wildlife Refuge
Meanwhile, children are being kept out of school for how long now, and people can’t get to their offices.
Uggg, here I am posting another one on this junk. However, it’s interesting to hear a few Burns Paiute voice their opinions and concerns.
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/live-news/2016/1/paiute-tribe-members-weigh-in-on-oregon-occupation.html
I need to say some good things about our NWR system and their staff. Now that Malheur NWR has been in news, I explored the webpage. Since I work with streams and wetlands my interest goes well beyond the jerks who’ve temporarily taken over the Malheur. Everything about the Bundys and those ‘patriots’ makes me mad and I’ve been trying to ignore them, but the news keeps popping up in my facebook feed and on the web news. I’ll counter my agitation with something positive.
A couple of years ago I participated in a wetlands training in NM and we were fortunate enough to do a field trip the Bosque del Apache NWR. It was in November so the birds were migrating and we got to see the early morning flights. We had a personal escort from Bosque de Apache staff. If you ever have the opportunity to go and see the birds fly in the early AM, please do. It is a beautiful place. They have worked so hard to have this wonderful place and it is critical resting place for the migratory birds in the Central Flyway.
The Deepfork NWR, is the refuge closest to where I work. I’ve come to love this place and when I can, I spend a lunch hour walking the boardwalk that leads back to a nice large depressional wetland. (there are many other wetlands in various places). I have done a couple of wetland assessments in that refuge for my M.S. thesis project, and in years past, I had a load of fun helping USFWS collect data on mussels in the Deep Fork River. I know a couple of the people that works at Deep Fork NWF. They are always willing and ready to help me with anything they can, and I them. I have met staff from a couple of other NWR’s in Oklahoma. All of the USFWS refuge staff do a great job of managing OUR resources. They love their work, and want us to have a wonderful experience when we are visiting the refuges. I know they do their best to have the most ecological healthy systems.
Many of us get frustrated with USFWS over the ESA and, other political issues, but the NWR’s are wonderful places. All of the USFWS staff, both with the refuges and the main FWS have always been great to me; have helped me out when I needed it (even with getting fishing line that was tangled all over a goose’s feet and the goose was in a city park, so it had nothing to do with my job).
I was exploring the USFWS Malheur NWR webpage. Malheur is now on my bucket list of places to visit. All that water! ๐ I hope you guys will look at the webpage. Look at the refuge site and think of the many USFWS staff working diligently to maintain or restore healthy ecosystems in their refuge.
http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/
This little Bundy brigade incident should pump up the visitors to Malheur NWR. ๐
Interesting read on why the Hammonds have the wrong bitch with the federal government. The same “fix” might be applied in the fisheries world also, to some extent it has as permits are retired. Just not enough of them and not enough restraint from fishing. In any event, a good read.
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/malheur-militants-are-picking-wrong-beef-feds
whoops would help to share the link!
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/19/1471770/-Armed-Oregon-supporters-make-late-night-raid-to-take-children-from-family-member-after-CPS-called?detail=email
This thing becomes more and more bizarre by the minute. The feds should have, at the very least, stopped all traffic into and out of this supposed “compound”.
Bundy and the boys had to make the conscious choice to encourage children to be part to this thing knowing it would decrease the likelihood that any action against them would be lessened by the kid’s presence.
Brave bast#*ds…….
How is this any different than Al-Qaida and ISIS?