It is time to create a new page of “Interesting Wildlife News.” It has been a long time since we have had a new page. The page and comment loading time has become very slow.
Please put your wildlife news in the comments below. Do not post copyrighted material.
Here is the link to the “old” wildlife news of July 20, 2016.
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Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan’s Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of “Hiking Idaho.” He also wrote “Beyond the Tetons” and “Backpacking Wyoming’s Teton and Washakie Wilderness.” He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.
Comments
“Throwing a staggering pile of cash at one place to drill thousands of new wells may go smoothly. More likely, though, the conflicts currently playing out in the oilsands, NEB hearing rooms and along proposed pipeline routes are about to get a new front line”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/montney-natural-gas-challenges-1.3829007
Ha. First item on the agenda for the New Regime. Jobs? You ask. The economy? Lead in the drinking water? Nope. Second Amendment and keeping our streets safer? Well, sort of. As always it’s:
http://www.wjjq.com/2016/11/16/sen-tiffany-renews-calls-for-wolf-de-listing/
“US cancels energy leases in sacred Badger-Two Medicine area”
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/us-cancels-drilling-leases-in-sacred-badger-two-medicine-area/article_fc3917b3-f33c-5630-9c96-67afbbc66774.html
Good news! 🙂
Great news Kathleen and then you read this:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/16/502337471/usgs-announces-its-largest-oil-and-gas-discovery-ever
So much for addressing climate change.
Yes. And while natural gas is “better” than coal or oil…it’s complicated.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas#.WC4AdyMrLBI
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/17/502425711/hundreds-of-u-s-businesses-urge-trump-to-uphold-paris-climate-deal
These types of unexpected catastrophes are why humans should never become overly confident in their ability to ‘manage’, and of the certainty that wildlife can ‘bounce back’ from the effects of our activities, science or no science:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112958-80000-reindeer-have-starved-to-death-as-arctic-sea-ice-retreats/
Heartening news about Penobscot river dam removal effects in Maine. Not very new, but new to me. I have a hard time convincing folks around me about dams, even as our freshwater clams and lake sturgeon are in a bad way. Even in Ann Arbor it’s hard. “Clams? But my daughter’s rowing team would be inconvenienced.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/science/penobscot-river-maine-dam-removal-fish.html
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/15/502157726/female-panther-crosses-florida-river-humans-applaud
Some good news, a female Florida panther crosses Caloosahatchee river.
Did you hear me stand up and cheer?
YES!
Sunday, November 13, 2016
Horizontal Transmission of Chronic Wasting Disease in Reindeer CDC Volume 22, Number 12—December 2016
http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2016/11/horizontal-transmission-of-chronic.html
The actual pre-release article:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/12/16-0635_article
Another one. CWD found in the wild in Norway. Lay press version. Worrisome for me is the possibility that misfolded PRNP protein just happens spontaneously sometimes, though perhaps that should be expected.
https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-biology/2016/09/19/chronic-wasting-disease-found-norwegian-free-ranging-tundra-reindeer/
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/11/hunters_cautioned_to_beware_im.html#incart_river_home_pop
Hunter tried to bring deer back to Alabama from a CWD state. I do agree with ‘ratting out’ your neighbors when the implications are this serious…you gotta know better. Fortunately someone saw the deer carcass and he was stopped.
Don’t you just love it? Whenever a rule, law, regulation, or caution is made, the assumption is that of course everybody will take it seriously and follow it.
Well guess what? They don’t, and may not even consider it. Can’t wait to see what happens ‘if’ and when the grizzlies are delisted. Oh of course all hunters will cooperate and obey the law!
Opinion piece re: sheep experiment station: “Daines wasting taxpayer money”
EXCERPT: “The U.S. Department of Agriculture has repeatedly tried to save millions of taxpayer dollars by closing the U.S. Sheep Experiment Station on the Montana/Idaho border. Commissioners for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks and several federal agencies have all asked the sheep station to stop grazing sheep in the Centennial Mountains of southwest Montana. The lead researcher for the sheep station has said that ending sheep grazing in the Centennials is “not that big of a big deal.”
In contrast, Daines has bragged about passing riders to keep the sheep station open.”
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/daines-wasting-taxpayer-money/article_be3dedbe-d8e1-5a48-8092-b7ff61909f7a.html
Breaking News!
Ted Nugent still alive and not in prison.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0vI_F97DQAhVY3mMKHeDODz4QqUMIGjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabc7.com%2Fpets%2Fvideo-deer-crashes-into-runner-during-ncaa-race%2F1612434%2F&usg=AFQjCNG24P8OQk8pAFTK9YAXmIta0lyADw
Grizzly bears headed for delisting after conservation strategy approved. One dissenting vote on the committee – YNP Superintendant Dan Wenk.
http://trib.com/lifestyles/recreation/grizzly-bears-headed-for-delisting-after-conservation-strategy-approved/article_dd51ad03-b776-506a-a61e-1ef5b2136f4d.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/11/17/the-north-pole-is-an-insane-36-degrees-warmer-than-normal-as-winter-descends/?utm_term=.b9bef4516f83
That North Pole temperature is as scary as Donald Trump as President, and even more because he denies global warming which is stronger at high latitudes.
Posting another link to the documentary Before The Flood. Hopefully this site will keep it up for awhile, its been dropped from 2 other sites. (National Geographic had over 11 million views in the week it ran on their site)
http://docur.co/documentary/before-the-flood
Is the DOJ still investigating poor Leonardo? I hope it’s not to discredit him in any way:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/leonardo-dicaprio-cooperating-with-the-doj-on-malaysian-money-scandal-investigation/
WI now pushing wolf delisting in the WGL and elsewhere. Opinion piece by US Senator Tammy Baldwin, who is a super liberal D, by the way:
http://www.wisfarmer.com/story/opinion/2016/11/18/washington-should-act-wisconsins-wolf-problem/94089914/
The hypocrisy is astounding, isn’t it? Don’t these people have more important issues to address, like crumbling infrastructures, employment, racism, contaminated drinking water, shootings, etc?
“The hypocrisy is astounding, isn’t it?”
The hypocrisy is keeping wolves on the ESL in regions where they’re fully recovered and thriving.
The hypocrisy is taking a protected animal off the esl just so inbred hunters and trappers can kill them for sport. Just because an animal is recovered and thriving does not mean it should be shot and trapped for sport. Hunting for sport is a sickness.
But Ma’iingan, how do we know they are ‘fully’ recovered? They will never be ‘fully’ recovered because the landscape is dominated by humans, just like with bison. What defines appropriate recovery is up for subjective debate, unfortunately, and affected by self-serving interests and biased politics, not to mention irrational beliefs. All is not equal here.
Left to availability of food supplies and other natural limits to their numbers, animal populations stabilize on their own. Which state has shown that wolf populations have remained relatively unchanged, is it Michigan?
Don’t you know? He’s so called “expert” on wolves. He thinks as soon as an animal is recovered, we must immediately delist it so his buddies in WI can be allowed to shoot, trap, and kill it for sport. People like him is why are our wildlife is in so much danger from humans.
Thank you for some balance here on the Wildlife news. I believe those that have no limits to wolves have actually hurt the species more than they know. Most notably the weakening of the Endangered Species Act itself.
Once again, reading only that which fits you agenda. Many folks up here in NE MN were aghast at the depth and breadth of the first wolf hunting/trapping season. Removal from the ESL didn’t have to mean let’s kill over 400 wolves. It could also have meant that folks have a right to protect what is theirs.
“In an email dated April 23, 2012, obtained by an earlier Government Data Practices Act request, Dennis E. Simon, (Chief Wildlife Management) of the DNR writes “… we owe it to our primary clients, hunters and trappers, and to livestock producers as secondary clients, to do what we can to establish a legitimate harvest opportunity now that the wolf is under our management authority.”
Perhaps poorly worded, but absolutely nothing in regard to management of the wolf population.
Since you like to “dig” why don’t you find ma’iingans take on the deer population that you feel should increase.
1st 400 wolves is nothing if your already killing 300 to curb habituation and depredation. Which, by the way, directly resulted in a reduction of that almost 300 to 150!
2nd Taking a partial line of text from a bigger and broader series of statements and actions of Mr Simons and then telling me what he didn’t say is bush league and not worth my comment. It defines you more than him.
3rd If trying to justify the relisting in the great lakes is your cup of tea, keep sipping. The point of my comment when over your head.
Here’s the entire email
Dated last April 23, and with emphasis added, the memo says:
All things being equal I would prefer that we delay the season until we can establish a license, complete the population survey, and draft a population model even if we have to estimate harvest effort and success initially. I believe that this deliberate and conservative approach would be more palatable to those who are uncomfortable with a wolf season in the first place and DNR will have broader support when we do have a season.
However, after giving it considerable thought over the weekend, I have come to the conclusion that we owe it to our primary clients, hunters and trappers, and to livestock producers as secondary clients, to do what we can to establish a legitimate harvest opportunity now that the wolf is under our management authority.
We have been clear that a season will be conservative to start and data collected will inform our future management options and our model. We can always work deliberately toward establishing the wolf as a unique harvest species through future legislation. I am supporting a limited season, both hunting and trapping, this fall under current authority. This will require a reallocation of wildlife resources to do it correctly and I am prepared to do that.
From this article
https://www.minnpost.com/earth-journal/2012/10/court-ruling-wolf-lawsuit-gives-dnr-rulemaking-limited-license-best
Nothing about population management, nothing about where are the conflicts with wolves occur, only a preference to delaying a season, then a surrender to hunters and trappers.
Wolf populations in MN rose through the 2000’s because of the increase in deer population. The easiest way to control wolf numbers is to control their food source. They don’t kill all the deer.
MI wolf populations, fairly consistent over the past few years, same with MN wolf populations. WI wolf population increased a bit, but I’d wager after the two bad winters 12/13 and 13/14 the deer population has increased.
Not a scientific survey, but on the 53 corridor between Eau Claire and Superior, I saw more dead deer on the road side this past November than anytime since the mid 2000’s
Rather than increase deer numbers, why don’t you get more concerned about your CWD addled deer? We certainly don’t want them in MN.
Tea is not my choice of sipping libation. Your comment about the ESA and wolves is more akin to the ass kissing you do elsewhere. Your only concept of balance floats askew, bouncing off the walls of your semicircular canals, resulting in chronic vertigo.
Hey immer, how cold is it in MN where you live right now?
Immer, Since you don’t seem to have a good handle on just where CWD is in WI, where car / deer crashes are an issue in WI and where marginal, good and poor wolf habitat is I would suggest you take a breath step away from picking a fight with me and really try to understand it.
It may be best if we discuss it in terms of MN. Immer, if you had an issue with CWD in Minnesota’s Dodge Co how in gods green earth would wolves solve that issue? You have talked about the band from (Lake of the woods) CO to Pine CO where most of the issues with wolves happen. Extrapolate that issues band all the way to Dodge CO and you would need to kill THOUSANDS of wolves each year to keep depredation and habituation issues even close to manageable. You would ruin the wolves reputation throughout MN! It’s disingenuous of you to tell me that wolves would be a factor in helping solve car deer accidents in Dodge CO let alone a CO like Washington or some of the other big car/deer CO. It would also be disingenuous to say car deer accidents are an issue in St Louis CO. Last but not least, lets make it clear that I would not support MORE deer in Dodge Co BUT would support curbing wolves in Lake CO to give your moose a break from their climate change.
Mat-ters,
You’re inventing things again.
I addressed your “concern” over the Simon email.
The only thing I mentioned about deer/car crashes was a simple observation that I observed more dead deer along 53 corridor between Eau Claire and Superior than in the recent past.
I wrote nothing about wolves solving CWD issues with deer, nor did I write that wolves would solve the issue with deer/car crashes.
The only correlation I made was if the deer population in Wisconsin increased, I would expect a similar increase in the wolf population.
CWD in Wisconsin
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/regulations.html
Also, deer farming is fairly well represented throughout Wisconsin.
In conclusion, not picking a fight, but addressing your inventions. Climate change and moose…? I’ve explained the moose wolf issue in the past, and wrote nothing about climate change, but the fact that the more deer, the more liver flukes and brain worm (which do not affect deer, but are deadly to moose), and yes, more wolves.
I’m sorry Immer, I thought you were up on what are biologist think is killing the moose in MN.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-12-28/news/0812270277_1_moose-climate-change-minnesota-department
My apologies.
http://www.citypages.com/news/moose-dying-in-minnesota-at-alarming-rate-climate-change-cited-as-cause-6549112
Mat-ters,
Having, or let it be said, trying to have a conversation/discussion with you is comparable to having a discussion with a young ADHD student. You flip all over the place, change subjects, don’t follow through on anything that was directed toward you, and insist on bringing up climate change in a veiled attempt at sarcasm.
Why don’t you just revert, you know: OFN; Truth be told; Sam Lobo; Reality 22… all the same talking points. You continually show up here when the IWC doesnt post headlines for a while..You’re predictable and boring.
Immer, Really? The subject was the hypocrisy of putting wolves on the ESL? Was it you or me that changed it to CWD & road kills? Who flipped out on just who I am with the audacity to talk about subject change?
Unless you want to really talk about the subject of how bad of an idea it was to continue the wolf lawsuits and the harm it did to the ESA…. I’m done on this thread.
By the way, you haven’t responded to prior thread where it was determined that your moose theories fall completely apart when you find out that deer in your neck of the woods are at or near all time lows modern day lows.
“Having, or let it be said, trying to have a conversation/discussion with you is comparable to having a discussion with a young ADHD student”
Good one, Immer.
http://www.peorian.com/technology/technology-news/trolls-cyberbullies/1079-how-to-identify-and-defeat-an-internet-troll
Go away troll.
jon,
Currently -8° with windchill -27°.
This weekend, considering the source, we should bottom out somewhere around -25°. Winter is here.
Mat-ters, I suggest you read this book. “Viscous: Wolves and Men in America” by Jon Coleman
It’s well researched and the guy earned his PhD in history from the research that went into this book.
Bread and circuses
What is sickening is that this supposed liberal democrat is now anti-wildlife much like her conservative colleagues in the U.S. Senate. Liberals were supposed to be fighting for wildlife while the other side fights to kill our wildlife. I hope Baldwin remembers why democrats voted for her in 2012. Going against her base will not help her at all in 2018 if she wants to become a 2 term U.S. Senator.
It won’t be long before we hear from another Democrat, Al Franken, putting his two cents in too. He’s been vocal about wolves and the ‘threats’ they pose in MN too. I truly can’t believe it. I hope that in an opposing regime, he’ll change his tune tho.
He’s not good enough, he’s not smart enough, and doggone it, maybe he’ll be thrown out in 2018.
The other MN U.S. Senator too. These democrats are starting to act more like conservative right wingers. They are trying to pander to the low information ignorant rural voter, the people who will never vote for them in any election.
Jon,
That’s not true.
When will they get it? They tried it again! this election, and got trounced soundly, because a lot of people didn’t even vote – disillusioned millennials and others. If Hillary had chosen Bernie, I know she would have won. And we could all rest easy – now look at the mess.
Jon,
That’s not true.
Why isn’t it true? He voted for delisting, and he wrote a letter to Tom Vilsack to restore funding after it was cut in 2011 for the Wildlife Services kill program, in addition to hunting them, in support of livestock interests. I’m not sure if Wildlife Services and wolf hunts were going on until the recent court decision. At any rate, the Great Lakes region shouldn’t speak for Wyoming. That says it all, I think, about their agenda. These people are not scientists. Wisconsin for example has already had the opportunity to ‘manage’ our nation’s wolves (not theirs) and failed.
Recent studies have shown that having the ability to kill wolves does not make their presence more acceptable, quite the opposite.
http://www.franken.senate.gov/files/letter/111011_Gray_Wolf_Trappers_Letter.pdf
I hope Franken will not be complicit again in serving up his state’s wolves as a bargaining chip during this administration.
that should read ‘both Wildlife Kill program and a wolf hunt were going on’.
And that was Franken’s SNL persona, Stuart Smalley, that I reworded for a little sarcasm.
I obviously don’t live in MN, but MN has become an ignorant state. Franken and Klobuchar are DINOS.They both support wolf killing. They think the concerns of rural citizens who will never vote for them is more important than protecting the wildlife of MN from sport hunters. MN also has a republican controlled state legislature now. The scary thing is Trump almost carried MN.
I am a liberal democrat, but I am becoming quite disgusted with my own party. You got supposed liberals whose views on wildlife are more in line with anti-wildlife conservatives. I want liberals to stand up and protect wildlife at all costs. There is no need to pander to rural folks who will never vote for you.
Indeed, I will show him JB. The simple response I expect in return will likely be a reference to the blue portions of any referenced map and the key which accompanies the T shirt. He is a smart guy, too – NYU/Columbia University, retired ship command Navy Captain and attorney, now living part year in AZ. Sure destroyed my sarcastic stereotype of modern day R’s as the party of the rich and the dumb.
JB,
Reporter Emily Badger of the NY Times has been covering this rural-urban voting phenomenon for the past month. Here is something from 4 days ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upshot/as-american-as-apple-pie-the-rural-votes-disproportionate-slice-of-power.html?_r=0
She also had a NYT piece appearing in the Seattle Times today, but for some reason no internet search will produce it, so far. It is titled “Rural Vote Flexes Powerful Muscle.” Seattle Times, Nov. 24, 2016, p. A-21 News.
I wonder how those who ALWAYS talk about Constitutional rights and no need to mess with something that isn’t broken feel about the Electoral College. This is a very good read.
Oh wait, isn’t that a topic that seems to be dominating NPR and local NPR station programing, and newspaper political section headlines and the like? Do we want to continue what the Constitution framers envisioned or something else? What happens when we go down that slippery path to start changing the very document that created this country?
WM,
Are not those Constitutional changes present in the form of amendments? Instead of protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority, what we may now find is a need to protect the majority from the tyranny of the minority.
Immer, always good to have conversation with you. I think the problem with Electoral College changes will be when it comes to ratification by individual states (all those rural ones that would lose power with changes from the current system). So, from the very start the framers of our government apparently recognized that rural states, not population centers, might not always share the same problems. Hence a Senate with 2 seats per state; and a lower House whose state representation is weighted toward population. As we move away from an agrarian society, which Jefferson and Madison thought we would be nearly forever, in the late 1700’s, the matter becomes more complex. Notwithstanding the results of the recent election, I find it refreshing that there is a check on urban populations which seem to be taking us closer to socialism – with entitlements sometimes heavily granted to the same folks who vote for them, or even to those with government jobs who don’t have to worry so much about what sources provide their salaries and often luxurious benefits (federal, states, county, cities and special districts). Something like 1 in 6, or is it 5 people has a government job these days? And, as GB Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher said, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”
Instead of protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority, what we may now find is a need to protect the majority from the tyranny of the minority.
+++
https://chomsky.info/19970303/
If you go back to the record of the Constitutional Convention, which took place in 1787, almost immediately after the end of the war, you see that they are already moving in another direction. James Madison — who was the main framer, and one of the founding fathers who was most libertarian — makes it very clear that the new constitutional system must be designed so as to insure that the government will, in his words “protect the minority of the opulent against the majority” and bar the way to anything like agrarian reform. The determination was made that America could not allow functioning democracy, since people would use their political power to attack the wealth of the minority of the opulent. Therefore, Madison argues, the country should be placed in the hands of the wealthier set of men, as he put it.
QUESTION: Isn’t that erection of barriers to democracy woven through the entire history of the United States?
CHOMSKY: It goes back to the writing of the Constitution. They were pretty explicit. Madison saw a “danger” in democracy that was quite real and he responded to it.
… Madison recognized that, if the overwhelming majority is poor, and if the democracy is a functioning one, then they’ll use their electoral power to serve their own interest rather than the common good of all. Aristotle’s solution was, “OK, eliminate poverty.” Madison faced the same problem but his solution was the opposite: “Eliminate democracy.”
QUESTION: Madison actually expected more of the rich, didn’t he?
CHOMSKY: Madison was sort of pre-capitalist. He was a person of the Enlightenment, kind of like Adam Smith. And his picture of what the wealthy would do with their power was very different from what they did do. He thought they would be enlightened gentlemen, benevolent philosophers and so on. By the early 1790s, he was already very upset, and he was deploring the depravity of the times. He saw people becoming the tools and tyrants of government, as he put it. They were using state power for their own ends. That’s not the way it was supposed to work. But the opposition had already been pushed back by then. Although there were radical democratic elements, they were pretty much marginalized pretty fast.
https://chomsky.info/profit02/
The founding fathers repeated the sentiments of the British “men of best quality” in almost the same words. As one put it “When I mention the public, I mean to include only the rational part of it. The ignorant and vulgar are as unfit to judge of the modes [of government], as they are unable to manage [its] reins.” The people are a “great beast” that must be tamed, his colleague Alexander Hamilton declared. Rebellious and independent farmers had to be taught, sometimes by force, that the ideals of the revolutionary pamphlets were not to be taken too seriously. The common people were not to be represented by countrymen like themselves, who know the people’s sores, but by gentry, merchants, lawyers, and other “responsible men” who could be trusted to defend privilege.
The reigning doctrine was expressed clearly by the President of the Continental Congress and first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Jay “The people who own the country ought to govern it.” One issue remained to be settled Who owns the country? The question was answered by the rise of private corporations and the structures devised to protect and support them, though it remains a difficult task to compel the public to keep to the spectator role.
The main designer, furthermore, was an astute political thinker James Madison, whose views largely prevailed. In the debates on the Constitution, Madison pointed out that if elections in England” were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place,” giving land to the landless. The Constitutional system must be designed to prevent such injustice and “secure the permanent interests of the country,” which are property rights.
Among Madisonian scholars, there is a consensus that “the Constitution was intrinsically an aristocratic document designed to check the democratic tendencies of the period,” delivering power to a “better sort” of people and excluding those who were not rich, well born, or prominent from exercising political power (Lance Banning). The primary responsibility of government is “to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority,” Madison declared. That has been the guiding principle of the democratic system from its origins until today.
In public discussion, Madison spoke of the rights of minorities in general, but it is quite clear that he had a particular minority in mind “the minority of the opulent.”
Madison foresaw that the threat of democracy was likely to become more severe over time because of the increase in “the proportion of those who will labor under all the hardships of life, and secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its blessings.” They might gain influence, Madison feared. He was concerned by the “symptoms of a leveling spirit” that had already appeared, and warned “of the future danger” if the right to vote would place “power over property in hands without a share in it.” Those “without property, or the hope of acquiring it, cannot be expected to sympathize sufficiently with its rights,” Madison explained. His solution was to keep political power in the hands of those who “come from and represent the wealth of the nation,” the “more capable set of men,” with the general public fragmented and disorganized
concise sum-up about the US bureaucracy in 15 slides
https://www.rose-hulman.edu/~casey1/Bureaucracy.pdf
A collection of thoughts on whether the US Constitution is outdated:
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-U-S-Constitution-outdated
Joseph Egan’s thoughts seem to be in lock step with what recently took place in our elections:
“So, have we “outpaced” our Constitution? Not quite, but we do find ourselves dangerously close to reaching the point where the Founders warned us the Constitution would no longer be useful…so much so that one of the two major political parties in this nation has become openly hostile to the Christian faith and vigorously promotes rampant immorality. We now find ourselves in a battle for the survival of this nation and its Constitution with a Democratic Party that every day comes more and more out of the closet in declaring its outright hostility toward God and our Constitution, yet I am confident that they can still be defeated, as polls show that the majority of the population of this nation is still Christian”
But were the Founders of the Constitution, overly religious?
https://www.quora.com/Were-any-of-Americas-founding-fathers-atheists
You are dim. Prior to wolf delisting, most Minesotans were fairly comfortable with this procedure, in particular because it was on private land.
I really feel bad for you and your state. Your state’s legislature is now controlled by republicans and Trump almost won your state. Says how ignorant your state has become.
Jon,
Get your panties out of your crack. My reply was to Ida, her comment about Frankenstein and her 2011 source. Read prior to indignation.
jon,
A friend (sad to say a very conservative one) sent me a county by county vote red/blue, which give one a sense of how the country voted geographically. There is a lot of red out there, and if you don’t recognize it you have your head where the sun don’t shine. Rural has pretty much had it with the urban folks. He also sent a link for a T shirt which showed states/counties in red (as USA) and the fewer blue (as Dumbfu**istan). Could be a message there for some of us.
WM:
You should send your friend the following in response–it shows how these maps distort the vote (because they fail to account for population density): https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/how-election-maps-lie/
Sorry, JB, see post above in reply to yours regarding the “map” and T shirt.
WM,
The checks and balances are now almost null and void, i.e.those senate seats…
Socialism. Think of all the organizations we have that are at least somewhat socialistic in nature: Postal system; police and fire departments; military; schools to name a few. Schools, my brothers and I were crammed into parochial schools, 45 to 50 per classroom. The indoctrination was greater than the education. Long after the fact we learned that our friends in public schools had 20-30 per classroom, minus the religious indoctrination, but much better prepared for high school, where our nuns told us if we attended the public variety, we would go to hell.
Funny how this jogs the memory. In art classes, I would draw pictures of snakes, wolves, coyote, the occasional ungulate…my drawings, not for lack of quality, but for subject matter, were never hung up with the other students. Religion can crush the same souls intended to be saved.
“He’s not good enough, he’s not smart enough, and doggone it, maybe he’ll be thrown out in 2018.”
Another uninformed comment from the “enlightened one”.
From the whiner “awwwwww, wolves make things haaaarrrrrd for people!” pfft
Well,ya know Ida, I guess you don’t know that Franken is a Harvard grad (cum laude by the way), and has in IQ well into the genius range. And, you are exactly qualified as what?
Addendum:
Franken was also a post-grad Fellow at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. Very tough program to get into, by the way.
Oh yes, I knew that. I’ve always thought that a good sense of humor was an indicator of intelligence. 🙂
OK, so maybe he is smart enough. But he isn’t an expert (i.e. ‘good enough’) to be making such far-reaching judgments that deterime the fate of wolves and other wildlife. He is a politician keeping a certain very vocal and over-represented segment of his state happy.
Anyway, my comment was not to be taken that seriously, just a little sarcasm about one of his comedic characters.
This may have been posted here before, apologies if so:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/fee.1312/epdf
From: Tammy Balwin
“Dear ****** ,
I have heard the voices of Wisconsinites who have real concerns about the increasing threat of our state’s growing wolf population. Farmers have found livestock injured and killed by wolves that are straying closer to their herds than in previous years. Families have lost pets. Parents have decided it’s no longer safe to let their kids play where they normally do. These concerns, and the expertise of wildlife science, tell us we should take on the gray wolf problem in our state by acting again to delist the wolf from the Endangered Species List and pass management of the wolf back to the State of Wisconsin.
This issue is not new to me and I have been working across party lines on it for many years. In 2011, prior to being elected to the Senate, when I represented South Central Wisconsin in the House of Representatives, biologists at the Fish and Wildlife Service concluded that the gray wolf population in the Great Lakes states had successfully recovered in Wisconsin. I applauded this decision and urged prompt delisting from the Endangered Species List and a return to state management, which was finalized with the full delisting of the wolf in December 2011. This was the right call then, just as it is today.
The Endangered Species Act plays a critical role in saving species from the brink of extinction, and when it does, we must acknowledge we have succeeded in restoring wildlife populations by delisting them. According to both federal and state wildlife biologists, this goal has been achieved. Wisconsin wolf populations were estimated at 815-880 animals in 2012, the year following delisting. This is far above the population of 100 that the 1992 Recovery Plan for the Eastern Timber Wolf set as a minimum number of animals necessary to sustain a recovered population.
Since the wolf was relisted as endangered following a court decision in late 2015, the wolf population has grown substantially in Wisconsin, and the most recent counts estimate a population of more than 900 animals. This large population is leading to increased conflicts between humans and wolves. Families are worried about their ability to stay safe, farmers report livestock losses and declines in dairy productivity from stressed cows, and pets have been killed by wolves that are straying closer to yards, farms, and towns. In addition, sportsmen and wildlife enthusiasts report declines in the population of deer, elk, and other wildlife. The wolf has recovered, and we must manage it as such, both for the safety and economic well-being of Wisconsinites and the balance of our environment.
Delisting the wolf should not mean removing it from the landscape, but restoring a greater balance in rural communities. Many Wisconsinites have deeply felt beliefs about how the wolf population should be managed, and the health of the wolf population is of unique significance to Native American Tribes. I believe those debates deserve thoughtful and careful consideration by state and tribal wildlife experts, following a federal delisting.
I was elected to represent the entire state of Wisconsin and I know full well that means hearing the voices of all and balancing the divisions that often exist on issues.
I am proud to support the Endangered Species Act, which has protected iconic species and wildlife for the benefit of future generations. Because of the good work done by so many in bringing back the wolf population, I am also proud to support its delisting.
That is why I have called on Congressional leadership and my colleagues in the United States Senate to pass legislation to delist the wolf and return management to the state by the end of this year.
Sincerely,
Tammy Baldwin, U.S. Senator for Wisconsin” In an email today …. sent from a friend!
Yes, I saw this too. She doesn’t mention the hunting season that to follow immediately, just delisting. Also, a dialogue with the tribes Not quite on the level, is she. Well that’s no surprise. And of course, ‘thoughtful consideration’ with state and tribal wildlife experts after that all-important delisting.
Here’s some more information. 90% of those Wisconsinites with ‘deeply held beliefs about how wolves should be managed’ want them left alone:
http://blog.humanesociety.org/wayne/2016/11/wolf-killing-plans-stir-lame-duck-session-congress.html?credit=web_id93480558
And more on ‘unprecedented’ losses due to climate change – 102 million trees dead in California:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-dead-trees-20161118-story.html
“I am proud to support the Endangered Species Act, which has protected iconic species and wildlife for the benefit of future generations”
Benefit what part of “future generations” is what’s questionable here. The tiny percentage that will teach their children to kill wolves, coyotes, etc. for the sport of it or the tiny percentage that will pass on their lack of responsibility for their livestock or pets?
“We are mired in a culture of death in Wisconsin and nationwide. Animals are not living and sentient beings. They are “rack sizes,” “pelts,” and “game” to be tortured, killed, and used as backdrops for sadistic photographs from hardhearted people. All the while fluffy terms like “harvest” and “recruited” are used to describe this (see hounds “working over” a coyote)
https://ourwisconsinourwildlife.wordpress.com/tag/wisconsin-wolf/
I wish that ‘if’ an animal has reached the bare minimum recovery standards our gov’t has for them, that killing seasons wouldn’t automatically follow. Until then, I won’t believe or have any faith in the so-called delisting process and ‘protection for future generations’ (of killers).
People trying to use their dislike of hunting as reasons for delisting – doesn’t hold water. If we dislike wolf hunting, lets try to stop wolf hunting.
The problem rork, is you are pragmatic and I suspect pragmatism is not what drives the issue surround to hunt wolves or not hunt. I recall one of the GL tribes, I believe it was the Red Lake Band who at least wanted a 3 mile buffer around their treaty land where wolves would be safe from hunting.That was a concession to no hunting but even a 3 mile buffer was too much to give by the state.
Pragmatism works best with benign issues and there is nothing benign about wolves or any of our predators.
It worked twice in MI. We have the referendum. But out legislators ignored the people 3 times (we have gerrymandering). Majorities exist other places too I’ll bet.
If others don’t know, most Anishinaabe groups rate wolves very high, and their attitude has been inspiring around here. Wolves are like us. You need real reasons to hurt one.
I think I woke up thinking about ANWR this morning.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-arctic-drilling-20161118-story.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/moose-found-frozen-mid-fight-remote-alaska-village-43642120
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wsb.708/full
“Factors affecting survival of adult female white-tailed deer after coyote establishment in south Carolina”
The abstract suffices. 138 radio-collared adult female deer – hardly any predated on by coyotes, perhaps none. Let the people saying coyotes kill the adults allot please knock it off. This is in South Carolina, where the deer are smaller than near me (MI). I’ve had to listen to more than one extremely misinformed hunter this year with completely fabricated facts, and delusional opinions, including that our “idiot DNR” introduced yotes. I constantly tell them that even bounties don’t reduce their numbers. My new name is “the coyote lover”, which I’m supposed to take as a slight, but don’t.
The Mississippi State Predator/Prey Study in the Michigan UP is finding coyotes to be the most significant non-human mortality source for adult female whitetails –
“Overall, coyotes were the leading cause of adult female mortality, followed by wolves. Good physical condition of some adult deer killed by coyotes throughout most of the year suggests partial additive mortality. Poor physical condition of adult deer killed by wolves suggests these mortalities were at least partially compensatory.”
http://fwrc.msstate.edu/carnivore/predatorprey/reports.asp
So smaller adult deer in South Carolina are rarely predated by coyotes and larger Michigan (at least UP) deer are often taken(with wolves around). Interesting
“While the state’s two million deer are most active in spring and fall, vehicle-deer crashes are a year-round problem. Each year, there are nearly 50,000 reported vehicle-deer crashes in Michigan. About 80 percent of these crashes occur on two-lane roads between dusk and dawn. The most serious crashes occur when motorists swerve to avoid a deer and hit another vehicle or a fixed object, or when their vehicle rolls over”
Wonder how much higher that total would be without predators?
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-72297_64773_22760-95455–,00.html
Effect size matters (and “leading cause” is not an estimate of it), and is hard to find in those (myriad) reports. “Annual survival was 0.55-0.78 during 2009-2011” for adult does, and that includes the 1.5 year-olds. Coyotes are the largest fraction but share the missing does with hunters, disease, and cars. I had a dead adult doe in my flower gardens this year, killed by coyotes obviously, but her broken leg might have been the ultimate cause.
http://blogs.usda.gov/2016/11/22/wily-coyotes-continue-to-thrive-in-the-southeast-at-the-expense-of-deer-populations/
reads like a press release about the paper I pointed to, but it doesn’t mention the paper. Kilgo does mention wolves.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to stir things up (dim bulb that I am) 🙂 Is that what you call him, Frankenstein? Funny thing is that I thought he was great on SNL, until I heard about the Democrats taking part in wolf delisting (like appeasement). I think we’re all a little on edge about the election. I’m still hoping that DT will announce Raul Grijalva as Interior Secretary?
And seriously, is it necessary to have both Wildlife ‘Services’ hitmen contracts and a hunting season? I don’t think there should be both, it’s too extreme. I know MN isn’t the only state that does this. The next thing will be calling out the National Guard!
^^Sadly, that may be too much to hope for, we’ve hoped for someone like Rep. Grijalva for years, but for what it’s worth about the saving of our public lands:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/nov/19/interview-how-will-president-donald-trump-impact-t/
I’m sharing this Young Turks video showing the atrocity of attacks on the Dakota Access Pipeline water protectors that happened last night. It shows the difference in response when Ammon Bundy and White militia illegally occupied a wildlife refuge less than a year ago. It is astounding. We discussed on TWN various reasons for the lack of strong arm LE response at Malheur. We discussed how the feds didn’t want another Ruby Ridge incident. There was much criticism of the Malheur bunch but there was also much defense of them. They were allowed to come and go from the wildlife refuge.
The story with the NoDAPL peaceful and unarmed protesters is a completely different story. First, they are on treaty land. Secondly, one of the Standing Rocks complaints was failure to consult with them as a sovereign, i.e., on a government-to-government basis. IMO, the ACOE has abused the intent and purpose of nationwide permits, in this case NWP 12. NWPs are intended to expedite projects, generally small projects, that are unlikely to cause environmental or cultural damage. That is not the case for this project.
Most recently, I read that the ACOE did not grant the easement permit for the Energy Transfer Partners to dig and lay the pipe that goes beneath the river. The NWP 12 does not cover the easement along the river to dig and bury the pipe. Energy Transfer may be digging without that permit.
The attacks by law enforcement, i.e., America’s militarized police forces and untrained private security (using dogs to attack people) shows how different the response is when the people are not White heavily armed right wing militia groups.
If the DAPL water protectors were White and heavily armed cowboys and militia they would not be attacked in 20 degree temperature with water cannons, sound bombs and glaring lights 24/7. That is what happened last night.
With the election of the fascist and White supremacist, Trump things will only get worse.
If you want to stave off this blatant racism and fascist do what you can to complain or have your voice heard. You have representatives and senators you can call.
Yes. This is hard to take, especially with the Bundys getting only a wrist slap.
In fact, the Bundy group in Oregon had a nice little kaffeeklatsch with law enforcement. I think even today, the land issues and the total lack of respect for treaties and tribal lands make it especially bad for Native Americans.
Makes you wonder why nothing was done or why there was no scrutiny the past 4-8 years? The BIA, Energy Dept, Interior Dept, DOJ, EPA….
Should wild animals have property rights over their habitats?
Excerpt: “One of the many reasons the world is facing a sixth mass extinction is straightforward: As more wild areas are farmed or developed or forested, animals are running out of places to live.
“Since existing conservation efforts haven’t solved the problem, an Australian philosopher proposes a new solution—giving property rights to wild animals. If an animal’s home is threatened, a human lawyer or advocate would step in on its behalf.”
https://www.fastcoexist.com/3065271/should-wild-animals-have-property-rights-over-their-habitats
Re: WM’s & JB’s comments –
“So data like this is really just a starting point for further research into the campaign. Nonetheless, the education gap is carving up the American electorate and toppling political coalitions that had been in place for many years”
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/
“Trump appointed a leading climate change denier Myron Ebell to lead his transition efforts on the Environmental Protection Agency and has not stepped back from his vow to slash environmental regulations he argued during the campaign are an undue burden on US businesses”
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/politics/trump-admits-some-connectivity-between-climate-change-and-human-activity/179762675
Not wildlife news, but related to an entity that gets discussed on this forum frequently. The scumbag billionaire Koch brothers. This time it has to do with scammer Bernie Madoff and Koch offshore investment earnings that, for now, cannot be tapped by the Trustee trying to recover for investors who lost $$ in this Ponzi scheme. Will a US District Court over-rule a Bankruptcy Court. Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/business/dealbook/kochs-and-other-madoff-investors-are-winners-in-fight-over-profits-held-abroad.html?emc=edit_th_20161123&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=36942192&_r=0
Squirrel revenge?
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/11/22/suicide-bomber-squirrel-hospitalizes-chicago-politician-who-spoke-out-against-squirrels.html
Now this is an organization that is getting it done and worthy of financial resources of which I will support!
Thanks for posting this Gary. Talking to someone just the other day (who bought a nearby ranch recently) and he mentioned looking into wildlife friendly fencing, a lot of elk migrate through this ranch, spring and fall. Passed this video on to him.
Click on “sightings” top tab, for a rare look at these fascinating creatures. 🙂
http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/
I’m in!
http://www.cafepress.com/zapatopi.509768174
got one for my car and one for my tardis
🙂 🙂 🙂
Make a great stocking stuffer!
“Behind the scenery: Public land needs a celebration, too”
On the 40th anniversaries of the Nat’l Forest Management Act and FLPMA (BLM). Excerpt:
“Why have these two almost unknown laws inspired such resistance? Because each in its own way transformed federal lands into law-abiding areas that could be managed for the collective good.”
http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/missoula/behind-the-scenery/Content?oid=3249268
News from Buffalo Field Campaign
http://org.salsalabs.com/o/2426/t/0/blastContent.jsp?email_blast_KEY=1355841
Happy Thanksgiving!
Wasn’t perfect but I am going to miss this man’s elegance and intelligence, when addressing the nation:
“We focus on the candidate we support, instead of some of the ideals we share.” I will miss him too. Very nice.
Hope everyone had a good day yesterday.
He’s done more to divide this nation than any other President in history. I’m surprised his nose isn’t growing as he speaks.
This nation was already divided, but can you please explain what he has done to divide this nation? Wait until that racist POS Trump gets in the white house.
Ask the families of the dead cops being shot almost daily.
Cops are going to be shot no matter who is POTUS.
How can you say that when he had to work with McConnell?
Tis a great holiday season. This month and in the next we will have rid the world of two of the biggest slimeballs in it. Hillary and Barry Hussein.
Wow
Timz this is a wildlife blog
I find it hard to be celebratory when the president elect is promoting cabinet members and policies that are extemely hostile to public lands, monuments, parks and the laws that protect all public trust resources
Feels like a time of mourning because when everything is at stake I can’t hel thinking wildlife will become, for the mainstream, one of the casualties in a pick your battles war. On a Good day in a good administration it’s been difficult to protect wild treasures under this incoming dictatorship with ideologues set to dismantle regulatory protections and expand resource extraction and with both houses drooling over the prospect of handing public treSures to rescoyrce extractors I think what is upcoming is the stuff of dystopian tragedy
Not celebrating anything, just presenting facts hoping to shut some folks up about the election. There’s nothing can be done but to move on and hope for the best. I’ve been mourning the state of affairs in this country for years and know it will get worse. Watching the attempts to delist grizzlies so we can turn around and kill them as we did with the wolf is the direction I fear we are headed. I feel at least I have the good sense to realize it’s Democrats as much to blame as Republicans,which some on this site fail to see.
That’s the thing – it doesn’t seem to matter which party is in control, the wildlife and environment always suffers. It’s always about people first, every excuse, more and more as the world population keeps growing.
I remember sometime during this farce of an election, people saying to ‘wait and compromise’, the candidates ‘aren’t perfect’.
How long are we supposed to wait? Issues that are important to me are always put on the back burner, or traded away without knowledge, as in the wolves. I hope it won’t be the same for grizzlies, but it is proceeding right along, isn’t it.
And saying the candidates aren’t perfect is the understatement of the year, and what we are told for years, and waiting for decades, being told the same old line.
I almost want to say that the unknown is better than the same path of compromise for another 4-8 years.
Lefty but with roots absolutely deplorable. But not racist or misogynist, homophobic, etc. all that the Democrats throw around. Tired of it. It’s the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacious argument where they just throw a charge of racism or rape to shut down all dissent. Because nobody wants to be called a racist, a rapist, or a Nazi. I really didn’t like those tactics – or being told to look up their stance on the issues on their website – while they attacked each other in the debates.
Isn’t that what a debate is for, to discuss issues?
My roots are old-fashioned, working class Massachusetts Democrats. I don’t know what today’s Democrats would call their deplorable Democratic cousins of the elites, I guess.
Years ago, I remember a close friend saying JFK actually came to their deplorable house for a fundraiser.
I don’t recall him working with anyone. Remember as he said I have a pen and a phone.
Kinda hard to work with obstructionist republicans whose goal was to make you a one term President.
Jon did you skip poly sci class? We have a 2 party system in which the task of each is to pass their own agenda and block the oppositions. Where would we be had the Republicans not blocked the Democrats attempts to keep slavery legal, or block the Democrats opposition to the Civil Rights Act?
And by the way a record number of police were being killed this year while Barry was entertaining the Black Lives Matter movement in the White House with their “kill all cops” signs. Pay attention!
Helps every once in awhile to look back 🙂
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/10/27/have-you-come-across-any-interesting-wildlife-news-october-27-2012/
One of my favorite photo moments, thanks for rembering Nancy
I love the look on that elks face, it’s like “ya I’m a bad ass”
Wow. Nice. A page right out of Steve Bannon’s playbook. Well done. Completely false, and ironically the opposite of what many of President Obama’s supporters, including those of his own race, thought he should have done. The man went out of his way not to make his Presidency about race. Painfully out of his way. Probably too far out of his way. To placate fools like you Timz. And still you rant like morons. It’s time to call people like you out. Loudly and ceaselessly.
You’re about to find out what a divided society and nation look like, first hand. Pay attention. Maybe this time to real news, and maybe this time with a shred of empathy and touch of historical context.
Oh. And the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed mostly through the efforts of northern Democrats (House and Senate) and one very determined Democratic President (Johnson), and of course, was the proud heritage of his predecessor (JFK). Southern Republicans in the House and Senate were nearly unanimous in their opposition along with the Dixiecrats. And, of course, all of those Southern states are now as red as the skin on the back of your neck.
Goldwater was one of just six Senate Republicans to vote against the bill in 1964, while 21 Senate Democrats opposed it. It passed by an overall vote of 73-27. In the House, 96 Democrats and 34 Republicans voted against the Civil Rights Act, passing with an overall 290-130 vote.
“When the bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964, the “Southern Bloc” of 18 southern Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage.[15] Said Russell: “We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.”
TC= Just another ignorant dip-shit trying to rewrite history.
The democrats back then were dixiecrats AKA closet republicans. Who opposes the voting rights act and civil rights act now? You right wingers Timz. Who struck down the voting rights act? The right wing majority on the supreme court. Many of you right wingers hated Obama simply because he was black. Don’t try to compare the dixiecrats of the 1960s to the democratic party of today you POS. The GOP are a whites only party. The GOP will continue to be soundly rejected by african American and latino voters.
The republicans today are no different than the dixiecrats of the 1960s. In fact, many of those dixiecrats left the democratic party and joined the republican party. Most racists today are republicans. They support voter suppression, support the gutting the voting rights act which was done by a conservative majority on the supreme court, opposes gay marriage, etc. I always assumed Timz was a democrat, so I am a bit surprised to learn he is a right winger. Calling Obama divisive is laughable coming from a right winger. Many right wingers hated Obama simply because he was black. Trump has offended women, muslims, disabled people, hispanics, etc. You wanna talk about divisive. This POS Trump won because of a rigged system, the electoral college. This very same system he called a disaster to our democracy back in 2012 when Romney lost.
Jon give it up the more you post the dumber you look.
Hillary Clinton after Trump says in the debate he may not accept the election day results: “I find that horrifying” Headlines today:Hillary Clinton to join recount efforts. Her hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Trump was the one claiming the election would be rigged. He’s right, the election was rigged. Trump won despite losing by over 2 million votes nationwide.
Jon, see previous post your an idiot.
Timmy Zaspel, you’re a big meanie!
How was your thanksgiving? 😉
You better start being nice to people on here little Timmy Zaspel or you’re being put on time out. 😉
And your still an idiot, and keep proving it with every post.
Jon, go back and read your posts. For the most part bashing hunters or republicans, nothing but meaningless tripe.
Jon, you really have the left wing propaganda rhetoric down pat.
“The GOP will continue to be soundly rejected by African American and Latino voters.”
The problem is African American voters “soundly” REJECTED CLINTON by the tune ten million of them! Some of which actually voted for Trump! I believe Trump got more Latino votes than Romney!
“The problem is African American voters “soundly” REJECTED CLINTON by the tune ten million of them!”
Source please, and your “interpretation”.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/clinton-votes-african-americans-latinos-women-white-voters/
Obama had 10 million more (Democratic) votes in 2008 than Hillary did in 2016, hence “soundly” . The percentages are in the article to figure out the total black vote that jumped ship.
Trump the bigot lost the black vote badly deplorable. Maybe it’s because of all the support he was getting from white supremacists.
Mat-ters,
Perhaps you should recheck your charts. Obama drew 3.5 million fewer votes in 12 than 08. Clinton drew about 1.5 million fewer votes than Obama did in 12, and 4.5 million fewer than in 08. Where is your 10 million AA votes rejecting Clinton?
What one can construe is that about 71.5 million people voted against Trump with Green and Libertarian votes counted, or for that “matter” 69.5 million votes against Clinton.
Somewhere around 134 million folks voted, should be much higher,
Please tell me where I am wrong…. and your source
Popular vote for Obama in 2008. 69,279,997 votes
Popular vote for Clinton in 2016 60,071,781 votes..
https://www.levintv.com/videos/ep161-electoral-map-breakdown-by-county-list-of-trump-senior-staff-choices
9.2 million and Yes, they are not all AA votes. Immer give it up on adding in the green party vote and Lib vote! You know full well a vote for the green party WAS most certainly more of a vote against Hillary then a vote against trump!
And? Hillary still received 2 million plus more votes than your criminal Trump. Why are you comparing 2008 to 2016? Hillary still crushed your criminal bigot Trump in the popular vote and her popular vote lead continues to grow. African Americans soundly rejected bigot Trump. That’s why he got well under 10% of the black vote deplorable.
My last post on the election, it sums it up.
“Our Founders in their infinite wisdom created the Electoral College to ensure the STATES were fairly represented. Why should one or two densely populated areas speak for the whole of the nation?”
There are 3,141 counties in the United States.
Trump won 3,084 of them.
Clinton won 57.
There are 62 counties in New York State.
Trump won 46 of them.
Clinton won 16.
Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.
In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond)
Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.
These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles.
The United States is comprised of 3, 797,000 square miles.
When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of our country.
Mat-ters,
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/21/election-results-electoral-popular-votes-trump-clinton/94214826/
And this is one of numerous sites.
Clinton at over 64 million votes. No argument from me in regard to lower black turnout, which may have cost her, but your claim of 10 million is ludicrous.
A typical misinformed deplorable right winger. Trump the bigot got CRUSHED in the latino vote.
Yup, proud to be “misinformed” and in the basket of deplorable even though I didn’t vote for Trump or Hillary. Jon, your good for the Democrats….keep it up!
What Mat-ters said goes for me also, I just didn’t want Jon to know how far off base he is about my being a conservative, guys like him need to be humored.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/harry-reid-trump-sexual-predator-231237
Harry Reid is not wrong. 😉
Harry Reid is one of the most corrupt people in Washington.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/03/corruption-scandals-led-to-harry-reids-abrupt-retirement/
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/harry-reid-trump-sexual-predator-231237
and what is Trump Mr. Zaspel?
Jon, Harry Reid leaves you and the Democratic party in great shape….a party to be proud of. ;o) I’m sure he has extensive expertise in sniffing out sexual predators…watching Bill work his magic on the Interns in the Whitehouse.
BUT lets get back to wildlife.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-not-a-fan-of-eagle-killing-wind-energy/article/2592407
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-rape-sexual-assault-claims-court-republican-party-us-presidential-florida-a7360636.html
Also, numerous women have come forward claiming Trump sexually assaulted them. You deplorables obviously don’t care that Trump is a criminal. Trump also admitted on tape to being a sexual predator.
Speaks volumes (don’t it!?) that Hillary and Dingy Harry didn’t mop the floor with someone as deplorable as Trump!
Actually, she did, in the popular vote deplorable.
First, let’s look at Trump’s position in 2012, when it appeared that Mitt Romney might win the popular vote but lose the electoral college.
Interestingly, Trump has deleted a number of tweets he sent in 2012, including:
“He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!” (Nov. 6)
“The phoney [sic] electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!” (Nov. 6)
“More votes equals a loss…revolution!” (Nov. 7)
The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.-Donald J. Trump in 2012
Straight up BS, timz, but people tend to see with a slant that comes the closet to aligning with their own beliefs. They also tend to believe what they wish to be true even in the face of strong evidence against it.
what’s BS back it up or shut up.
I can prove everything I’ve stated in these last post. Your slant/believe is just stupity
timz, we all do this. It is human tendency. That is why as individuals we have to train ourselves to recognize when our perception of something aligns with what we want to be true or with our belief system. Once we can recognize those things about us, personally, then we can better understand our own biases. Then we are better able to step back from the issue or problem and look at the situation from a wider angle.
Yvette your previous post. Kind of like your view of Venezuela’s “success” with socialism? Also appears heros of Venezuela, like Cuba, will have been re-thinking their allegiance now that Fidel has passed on. I don’t think Raul is such a fan. Of course, Chavez and his little legacy puppet taxi-cab driver Murado have basically gutted their country economically. Nice job, boys.
Yvette, you ready to do some re-thinking of your own?
WM, I had a great afternoon at a meeting with other like minded organizers. The drive between Tulsa and OKC and back was spent discussing socialism and Marxism economics with an economics professor. I got my first economics lesson from a radical economist. The more I learn the more to the left I move.
hopelessly brainwashed ignoramus WM at it again
Can the Venezuelan Economy Be Fixed?
http://cepr.net/publications/op-eds-columns/can-the-venezuelan-economy-be-fixed
Cuba in the Cross-Hairs: A Near Half-Century of Terror
https://chomsky.info/hegemony02/
Obama’s Historic Move
https://chomsky.info/20141214/
http://www.newhistorian.com/the-usa-and-latin-america-a-history-of-meddling/3476/
http://ivn.us/2014/02/12/u-s-losing-latin-america/
“In Foreign Affairs, Christopher Sabatini wrote that “twenty-first-century Latin America has its own, autonomous power dynamics. A little realism would go a long way.”
Nancy, as a free book of the day I downloaded high school’s algebra textbook written in 1886 – preface was intriguing
file:///C:/Users/N500TD-02/Downloads/AlgebraanElementaryTextBookfortheHigherClassesofSecondarySchoolsandforColleges_10004633.pdf
The order in which the matter is arranged will doubt less seem strange to many teachers, but a little reflection will ,I think, convince them that it could easily be justified .
There is, how ever, no necessity that, at a first reading, the
order of the chapters should be exactly adhered to. I think that,in a final reading, the order I have given should be
followed , as it seems to me to be the natural order into which the subjects fall after they h av e been fully comprehended in their relation to the fundamental laws of Algebra.
With respect to the very large number of Exercises,I should mention that they have been given for the convenience of the teacher,in order that he might have, year by year,in using the book, a sufficient variety to prevent mere rote-work on the part of his pupils .
I should much deprecate the idea that any one pupil is to work all the exercises at the first or at any reading.We do too much of that kind of work in this country.
🙂
Nancy and Mareks: Thank you. Those are informative links.
Mareks,
This by the same author you cite above, written 4 years earlier:
++Nonetheless, most prognoses remain gloomy. Venezuela’s current growth is generally described as unsustainable, with various negative scenarios put forth, including spiraling debt, inflation, and balance of payments crises. However, these pessimistic forecasts have been far off the mark for most of the past decade. This paper looks at the available economic data to see if Venezuela’s economic recovery could be sustained, or even accelerated. We find that Venezuela’s current economic growth is sustainable and could continue at the current pace or higher for many years.++ http://cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2012-09.pdf
No discussion at all about the fragility and risks of a one horse economic engine – oil.
You might also consider that in the last 2 years asylum applications from Venezuela to the US have skyrocketed, according to the Pew Center, and by far the highest of any other Latin American country except Mexico. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/04/venezuelan-asylum-applications-to-u-s-soar-in-2016/
And, let’s not forget, even against your advices, the main stream media talks constantly about the lack of basic necessities of living (food and medical supplies) which are in so short supply locals forage and steal from adjacent countries. What does one do when the economic system, currency regulation, import-export balance does not work when you have nothing the world wants, and has little to no immediate future of recovery it would appear. I guess some of us look to government to help in this area – that is its job. But when you have a hand picked bus/taxi driver as the puppet head of government, and a sole economic engine (oil), brain-trust individuals who oppose this give away government backed socialism leaving the country (to the US and Spain, the second most attractive asylum destination), what can you expect? Then Cuba looks for a new benefactor as the Castro regime loses steam. Raul has known this was going to happen and is now taking the path of best alternative economic futures – why hitch your horse to an overloaded wagon with a broken wheel [that would be Venezuela) and little or no help in sight except from Washington DC and Miami (where remittances and family sympathies still flow to Cuba)?
I guess we will just have to wait out the “ignoramus” labeling for a couple years, Mareks? I can wait.
And, keeping this discussion relevant to wildlife news, you might want to read the following, and then extrapolate/prognosticate to what is likely happening to the wildlife in Venezuela as supplies of domestic meat runs short. I expect there is a growing black market trade in harvesting and selling whatever is available to shoot or trap and sell to urban markets, or just to keep your rural self alive if you can’t go to town for a couple pound of beef, pork, lamb or chicken.
Slaughter of zoo animals -really? Things cannot have gotten better since this article was written in August. It must really be bad out there.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-economic-collapse-in-venezuela-is-so-bad-that-people-are-slaughtering-and-eating-zoo-animals
MORE on the food crisis in Venezuela, Mareks. I can’t seem to find much of anything recent on the effects on wildlife population. There were already academic studies done in the 1980’s that apparently showed significant declines in certain species from the earlier economic collapses. Read this carefully, dude, and think what people are willing to do closer to home to get some protein?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/01/brazil-border-town-boom-venezuela-economic-crisis
No discussion at all about the fragility and risks of a one horse economic engine – oil.
+++
Mark Weisbrot has not a single article about Venezuela’s oil sector? really?
as your reading comprehension is close to zero (as the cases with OR & WA wolf reports testified)and thereby you are effectively functionally illiterate person there is slim chance you could comprehend this article
https://foodfirst.org/special-report-hunger-in-venezuela-a-look-beyond-the-spin/
+
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/hugo-chavez-was-a-democrat-not-a-dictator-and-showed-a-progressive-alternative-to-neo-liberalism-is-8522329.html
A funny sort of dictator: there have been 17 elections and referenda since 1998. Perhaps you think they were rigged. When he won by a huge margin in 2006, former US President Jimmy Carter was among those declaring he had won “fairly and squarely”.
At the last election in October 2012, Carter declared that, “of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world.”
when functionally illiterate ignoramus WM will start to make reference to the US imposed embargo on Cuba for the past 60 years? and terrorism? and assasination attempts of foreign political leaders? and friendly dictators? and the School of America where wannabe death squad members learned their craft from democracy-loving Americans?
how about the US food stamp program? SNAP benefits cost $74.1 billion in fiscal year 2014 and supplied roughly 46.5 million Americans with an average of $125.35 for each person per month in food assistance.
don’t want to read those series of dispatches from the US’s poorest communities?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-kentucky-and-americas-poorest-towns
As a saying goes – only graveyard will put an end to your bullshit output. Why? Because you are a closed-minded bigot (that is, functionally illiterate control-freak)
++ Mark Weisbrot has not a single article about Venezuela’s oil sector? really?++
Mareks, I DID NOT say that. I asserted that with respect to the article to which I linked he failed to mention the fragility of the oil sector in his assertion that the economy would prevail. You better think some before you make claims about “reading comprehension.”
So, your rebuttal to widely reported food and medical supplies shortages is some socialist outfit out of California, Food First? Now there is a source for you. The article is nearly six months old, and yet the mainstream media portrayals of shortages persist and seem to be, according to these reports, getting worse as dampened oil prices remain depressed. Are you really that naïve?
As mentioned before, I guess we will just have to wait and see how the Venezuela (or Cuban) economy goes, with everybody else trying to lock them out and drag them down, according to you. Then the “ignoramus” label will be earned by one of us, or perhaps not.
So, do you suppose wildlife in Venezuala is doing well as this plays out, Mareks? I’m not so sure.
1) Cuba’s embargo was imposed not by some mystical “everybody else” but by the US for 60 years + constant terrorism + attempts to kill foreign political leaders
2)US mainstream media coverage of Venezuela is a joke – “the sky is falling” soundtrack has been playing since 1999
3) Venezuela’s area: 353,841 sq mi and it’s urbanization rate is ~90% and 73% live less than 100 kilometres (62 mi) from the coastline + forests cover 56% of the land + there’s not that many big ungulates roaming country side – go figure, charlie
4) by the way, H.Chavez was elected as a president in 1999 thanks to the middle-class
Anything you say, there, Mareks, anything you say, but let’s consider some other sources, just for kicks, OK sport?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/18/venezuela-food-shortages-cause-some-hunt-dogs-cats-pigeons/84547888/
It would appear for some in Venezuela the sky is, indeed, falling. And then there are those who believe in the tooth fairy or that hunger is imagined. This from PBS, who most of us here in the US tend to believe is a bit more trustworthy than the main NETWORK news sources. This report from September 1, 2016. I can’t imagine things have gotten much better in the last 2 months: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/growing-catastrophic-food-crisis-sows-unrest-venezuela/
And, then there is this from The Atlantic – as animal shelters for dogs try to keep them alive (warning there are some pretty disturbing pictures): http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/09/venezuelan-food-shortages-force-many-to-abandon-their-pets/498971/
Mareks’ you are an idiot, just sayin’.
as was the case with OR and WA wolf reports, – hopelessly brainwashed ignoramus WM is proving once more that he is an functionally illiterate schmuck:
1)as he was eager to drop his ‘opinions’ before he actually read OR Science Review the same stuff is repeated about Venezuela or Cuba – bozo is not reading anything which upsets his GOPerish narrative
“Special Report: Hunger in Venezuela? A Look Beyond the Spin” is dismissed as irrelevant because obtuse hayseed labeled it as ‘socialist source’.
The article’s author is Christina Schiavoni who’s a PhD researcher focused on agrarian studies at the International Institute of Social Studies (ISS) in The Hague, Netherlands. She has been following food politics in Venezuela for the past decade and is currently in Venezuela doing research in this area.
The very first sentence mentions ‘dogs, riots, starvation’ etc and then article proceeds to give a detailed bigger picture with links to additional reports sources .
It’s very challenging for a functionally illiterate brainwashed GOPer to comprehend article’s concluding paragraph:
” Questioning the headlines
While hunger anywhere deserves high-level media coverage, it bears asking why Venezuela, a country which, by many indicators, has made important advances against hunger and poverty, is being targeted daily for dire coverage that does not reflect reality on the ground. Furthermore, why are the challenges being covered (albeit in a distorted manner), but not the many innovative and successful responses, from an explosion of urban agriculture, to an agroecological transition, to unprecedented levels of citizen organization around food production and provisioning? The answers to this are multifold, complex, and subject to different perspectives and interpretations, but we hope readers are encouraged to seek out more information before taking current news reports at face value.”
2)so, if some functionally illiterate imbecile cannot get past ideologically framed cranky ‘reportage’ about Venezuela – who cares?
Mareks,
Cut it out. Again, you don’t read so well. Your authoritative source is a PhD CANDIDATE. That means she does not have the degree. Never heard of the college she’s in, though, and it has what, less than 300 students. Never really thought of “social studies” as much of an academic discipline either.
Sorry, Mareks, no GOP’er. Pretty much blue in an even more solid blue household, city and state (well the urban strip along the I-5 Interstate anyway). But centrists, even those who are practical are disdained here because too many “politically correct” lefty types are incapable of having an honest dialog about their dogmatic positions on complicated topics. That is why, IMHO, this country is sadly moving further to the right, perhaps even in a drastic way. If solid D John Kerry had made another for President (instead of crooked Hillary and her slick Willie husband) I would have campaigned for him.
By the way, Mareks, back to your boy Chavez. He went from a modest military employee on a nominal salary to a net worth of over $4.2 billion (that’s right billion) over his public service career, leaving his heiress daughter(s) quite wealthy, including one with most of that $4.2 billion is now the wealthiest woman in Venezuela. The family still occupies some palacial compound, probably paid for by the Venezuelan government. How ’bout that socialism thing? Works better for some than others. Sort of like communism, where in Cuba, Fidel died with a net worth pushing a billion ($900+ M according to most sources), while “the people” are still driving around in 1950’s American made automobiles, and being supported by their bold out migrating relatives in Miami. Gotta love socialism and communism for the guys at the top. One more data point for you, socialist Duarte, the new guy in the Philippines, is taking the country back to the days of Ferdinand Marcos (Remember Imelda and her thousands of pairs of new shoes while the people merely held on?) Gotta love that socialism while another guy at the top takes advantage of the unsophisticated.
that’s all, schmuck, you can say?
1)I did not promote her as an authority – just pointed the obvious:
“as your reading comprehension is close to zero (as the cases with OR & WA wolf reports testified)and thereby you are effectively functionally illiterate person there is slim chance you could comprehend this article”
2) she’s from US, got her first degree from Cornell, then moved to the Netherlands, has been involved in agrarian issues for years and is currently in Venezuela doing research in this area.
In brief, she is more qualified and reliable source than your ludicrous hacks whom you so eagerly & devoutedly regurgitate
“Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly.” Proverbs 26:11
3) Erasmus University Rotterdam strives to achieve academic excellence. This results in high positions in the international university rankings.https://www.eur.nl/english/prospective/phd/rankings/
(2015)
Position #2 in the Netherlands
Position #91 global
+
many other ranking lists agree
https://www.eur.nl/english/prospective/erasmus_university/
Erasmus University Rotterdam is a global top-100 research university. In international classrooms ambitious students prepare for an excellent career.
Erasmus University Rotterdam is one the biggest universities of the Netherlands with a student population of 23,000 and a research community of circa 1,400. The research at Erasmus University has strong focus on societal impact in the areas of health, wealth, governance and culture.
4)as Noam Chomsky observes:
The Democratic party now belongs to moderate Republicans
There used to be a quip that the United States was a one-party state with a business party that had two factions: the Democrats and Republicans—and that used to be pretty accurate, but it’s not anymore. The U.S. is still a two-party state, but there’s only one faction, and it’s not Democrats, it’s moderate Republicans. Today’s Democrats have shifted to the right
[Political scientist] Norman Ornstein simply describes the Republican Party today as a ‘radical insurgency that doesn’t care about fact, doesn’t care about argument, doesn’t want to participate in politics, and is simply off the spectrum
Even Obama admitted he would be a moderate Republican if this were the 1980s.
+++
and as Eisenhower would not be surprised by Bernie Sanders – so it makes you a solid GOPer
schmuck,
every single noun & adjective I used to characterize / profile you – stands.
It has to be an amazing and intriguing experience to live whole life walking in your shoes. Condolences and carry on, freedom fighter 🙂
Stand tall and hold on to your cowboy hat, charlie – someone is coming after you, hayseed, and will rob you blind.
I wonder what’s the difference between functionally illiterate schmuck WM and those lost souls who insist in earnest that wolves are attacking children at the bus stops?
read the link I just posted
exactly what you reference!
http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/obama-is-a-race-baiter
Dick Cheney has your back Timz.
Personally, I think that anyone that thinks that Obama’s and the media’s role /actions around the Michael Brown and Ferguson where not an attempt to rile up the base before the 2014 midterms have their head in the sand.
Never got hung up in the Black Friday experience, it also helps that getting to the closest mall, is a 2 hour drive 🙂
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/25/503191704/black-friday-may-start-looking-a-little-greener-with-these-alternatives
Sometimes if I want a kick-start to the holiday season, I’ll go – but I don’t know today. 🙂
I kinda had a delusion that if both candidates ended up in prison, President Obama and the First Lady could hold down the fort for a little while longer. 🙂
Nancy, living in central Oregon with forests, lakes, rivers, mountains and deserts surrounding me is a “no brainer” for what to do pretty much every day. The other day on a hike I saw two gray squirrels making real loud and deep calls (could have been a quarrel), a family of coyotes (for a brief second) and soon I will be getting a Bernese Mountain Dog puppy (check them out on the web) to which I will have a great companion to go walking with.
I meet my friend who has an Australian Shepherd on my hikes and we have great discussions that will beat any shopping frenzy.
BTW, regarding my post on removing fences, I read where barb wire is the single greatest “invention” threat to wildlife; even beating the plow.
Gary, the Bernese Mtn dog is a wonderful breed (knew someone that had 2) Gentle giants 🙂
Hi Gary, please be aware that the Bernese Mountain Dog has a high incidence of fatal cancer and statistically a short lifespan. (The breed originates from extremely few founders – as few as 6 males)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139364/
Hi Susan, thank you for the info and yes I’m aware of their health issues, but living in the mountains with snow three to four months a year, they are a good fit plus they are just AWESOME looking.
The breeders where I live are working very hard to make sure they breed dogs that are as healthy as possible and I will feed Barli (his name) the recommended food, vet visits, provide a lot of exercise and spoil him rotten with love among other things.
BTW, I appreciate your comments regarding personal attacks as this site use to be one of my favorites but IMHO has digressed lately.
Awwwww. So sweet.
Well, I have a new cat also. I vowed after losing my last one, I would ever get another.
Well, six months later now I have a Lilac Point Siamese, who looks like a frosty Canada lynx! A friend knew someone who wasn’t able to keep her because she was moving, so I adopted her. She’s a beauty and a sweetie. 🙂
I think a lot of the rancor is due to the election, and not knowing what to expect. Once the shock wears off, I think things will return to normal respectfulness. 🙂
Very good article by Jesse Logan on why NOT to hunt grizzlies https://thebullseye.media/a-scientists-case-against-killing-grizzlies/
We live in a sick sick world. Killing wildlife for sport is a mental illness.
Yes, very good read, Leslie. Thanks for posting it.
Three condors born in captivity have been released in Ecuador.
““It gives us great tranquility and hope to release them in the paramo of the Zuleta commune, because we know of the commitment that this community has towards the environmental care of its paramos that are a source of water and also the home of the Andean condor,” said Ximena Pazmiño, director of the Galo Plaza Lasso Foundation.
Experts will monitor the birds on an ongoing basis.”
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Three-Condors-King-of-the-Andes-Released-into-Ecuador-Wild-20161126-0021.html
Pretty cool stuff.
The condor is emblematic of Ecuador and the Andes – it shocks me how it came to be that only 100 are left! It shouldn’t have had to come to this. It’s hard to feel good about.
Court dismisses wolf killers appeal
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/wolf-kill-clayton-thomas-yukon-tahltan-1.3856067
Good!
Good God. Slaughtering zoo animals? This is my greatest fear of shades of things to come. When climate change and overpopulation get so bad that wildlife and animals are hard-hit first, and then our own collapse. We will never stop. 🙁
We talk like we are in control of everything around us, but we cannot see that we are not. It must be a human failing. All I can think of is the lyrics to Slip Sliding Away – ‘We work our jobs, collect our pay – believe we’re gliding down the highway when in fact we’re slip slidin’ away.”
I am neither left nor right anymore.
How violent and awful. And typical. I can see this happening everywhere in panic in the future. Wait until we start eating each other. I’m glad I won’t be around to see it. It’s great to be hopeful, but sometimes relying on hope also allows for bad things to happen by refusing to face reality:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/19/hungry-venezuelans-break-into-caracas-zoo-and-butcher-a-horse/
WM, I’m sorry I read this – I get the same stomach-turning creeps as reading about a lynching or other instance of human violence. It’s truly shocking what we are capable of.
Just an observation–the people who broke into the zoo and killed a horse to eat were hungry or starving. Horses are considered food animals in many countries, though Venezuela isn’t one of them (according to Wikipedia). While I’m not defending their awful but utilitarian action, even more horrifying to me is the practice of holding animals captive in zoos AND allowing them to breed, then culling (outright killing) those who are “excess” or whose genetics don’t fit the zoo’s “needs.” This is particularly an accepted practice in European zoos. Time to empty the cages.
Of course we know they were starving – but a mob lynching isn’t the answer is it? It goes without saying that it is horrifying that these animals are captive and subject to the will of humans for anything we do, whether in war-torn countries or collapsed economies. Surely there was another way than a violent attack?
I simply cannot excuse another reason for harming animals by humans. Surely there was another way – this wasn’t Mussolini, it was an innocent bystander.
It wasn’t strictly utilitarian action either, it was a violent, tearing off of the flesh the article said. It also is a form of political anger, a ‘safe’ one where they wouldn’t have to be shot or arrested for harming the actual perpetrators of their condition. A scapegoat and effigy. I can’t believe you would excuse it or defend it. If we don’t get control of our overbreeding, this is the future everywhere, I am afraid.
Actually, Ida, I *didn’t* excuse or defend it, and even said, “I’m not defending their awful but utilitarian action.” I was hoping to draw a comparison between people (who are hungry) killing a captive zoo animal to eat and people (who run zoos for profit) killing captive zoo animals for no reason other than they’re *excess*. Both acts result from the speciesism that pervades human societies–making it acceptable to regard nonhuman animals as both food and entertainment without moral consideration for the lives they–the animals–value.
Anyway, here’s some great news! The title just makes my day:
Court Tears Into Wolf Hunting Law
Yes, with all the outrage over whether or not Trump would accept the election results, look who’s whinging now. If the Democrats had won, you’d not be hearing a peep one way or the other. They should be careful what they wish for.
Some bit of good news there. I’ll take it.
He overstated what he knows about why voters in Michigan voted as they did. Of course that’s nearly universal – win the vote, and the winners declare there to be a mandate on even the tiniest detail, and put words into voter’s mouths like a firehose.
Here’s another article, same news:
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/michigan_wolf_hunt_law_ruled_u.html
http://protectthewolves.com/the-psychology-and-thrill-of-trophy-hunting-is-it-criminal-from-psychology-today/
And with that said, elk & deer hunting season is over in my neck of the woods. The small group of elk that has been harassed for weeks on end across from me, will no doubt acknowledge and mourn their losses (family members) and then get back to the age old need of migrating out of the area. What’s left, can finally leave in relative quiet, unmolested.
Wildlife’s “refrigerator” is closed till next year. The weekly parade of gas guzzling pickup trucks on my road, is finally over. 🙂
Trophy hunters are obviously mentally ill individuals. To shoot an animal simply for sport and for a trophy is the clear definition of what a true psychopath is.
I would not be so sure of myself that hunting season is over for the year. The harvest is way down and during the next few days the Fish, Wildlife and Parks are going to have some serious meetings about extending the season or damage hunts.
I hunted antelope south of you in the Big Sheep Creek area and I saw a solo black wolf.
Knew you would be weighing in on my comments, Elk 🙂 Hope you’re doing well?
The mild weather, once again, this fall/so far this winter, has not been kind to hunters – no tracks for those who actually do get out of their rigs and hunt – so it would not surprise me if the “killing” season is extended in some areas.
I’m happy though that the unseasonably warm weather we’ve been experiencing around here and in other parts of Montana, mean elk, mule deer and antelope, who do manage to survive hunting season, will be fit for their annual migrations, over some pretty tough terrain.
Two wolves sighted in my area recently,
Elk, chasing their natural prey – elk – through a field of cattle, I heard.
Heard a neighborhood kid, got a shot off at those visiting wolves. A kid that moves through his life in a big, maxed out pickup truck, so common to the youth in this area.
And I must say, personally? I’d love to send a load of “buckshot of knowledge” off in the direction of this skinny little kid’s ass before he gets to big and tainted, to form an opinion about wildlife and their natural place on the landscape.
And wolf hunting is on until March 15. Wolf trapping runs for 2-1/2 months within the rifle season. Wolf killing is legal for *over* six months of the year in Montana. Death count is 106 as of today.
I mean no offense by saying this, but we can thank Jon Tester (D) and Mike Simpson (R) for that. We can see what Democratic compromise has led to – nothing, and no thanks for it either. At least in the Great Lakes this kind of ‘over-management’ to put it mildly won’t be happening. Enough is enough.
Two items: An opinion column on MT FWP’s ethics violation for allowing the MT Trappers Assoc. the use of state equipment to campaign against the ballot initiative to eliminate trapping from public lands (the 2014 initiative attempt).
Excerpt: “While the agency says it will contest the ruling, it does so at its peril. Political campaigns are no place for state agency interference and the potential for repercussions looms large.”
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/george-ochenski-campaigns-are-no-place-for-state-agency-interference/article_e5087fc6-44b8-54f3-a0ec-cd0e515dda83.html
Also: Another Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem grizzly was killed by a hunter (a hunting guide, actually):
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/livingston-hunting-guide-recounts-killing-charging-grizzly/article_7f325a10-4c17-5e41-a153-d397785531f8.html
No mention of bear spray anywhere in the article.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/the-dark-rigidity-of-fundamentalist-rural-america-a-view-from-the-inside/
I see the battles rage on here.
I think that wildlife and public lands are at greeter risk than we might ever have imagined. In listening to the endless pundits and news and in trying to reconcile the election and the improbable and “deplorable” result, I’ve been reading a great deal.
This is one of the best editorials I have read about the real problem we are facing, and it’s not that Democrats don’t “pay attention” to the lower and middle class or white rural Americans.
I’ve been feeling very angry when I hear that rationalization. This editorial nicely sums up what happened, at least part of it.
The Democrats are the party that has been fighting for social, economic and environmental justice so how did the right steal that platform, why do these people constantly vote against their best interests?
we know instinctively how crazy a Trump presidency is? and for wildlife lovers we cringe thinking about the assaults to come.
Read on, I believe the author has hit on something very important. It will be necessary to change by making the need to change personal. Where wildlife and public trust resources are concerned, advocates better find a way to collude together to illustrate why the loss of these resources will be very a very real personal tragedy for all of us.
Read on, its long but worth it
++++++++ Excellent article, Louise.
Next Interior Secretary: A Udall?
Oh, please! I hope they don’t break my heart with this kind of promise. What a legacy he’d have.
This excerpt summed up my fears if the Democrats won, also (although I did vote for HRC):
At Standing Rock, A Battle Over Fossil Fuels and Land
The Native American-led protest against the Dakota Access pipeline has gained global attention. In an e360 interview, indigenous expert Kyle Powys Whyte talks about the history of fossil fuel production on tribal lands and the role native groups are playing in fighting climate change.
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=3052
Love, death and rewilding – how two clothing tycoons saved Patagonia
Alongside her husband, Doug, Kris McDivitt Tompkins bought up vast swaths of Patagonia to save it from developers. Now, a year after Doug’s sudden death, she explains how their shared vision is close to reality
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/28/how-two-clothing-tycoons-saved-patagonia-doug-tomkins-kris-mcdivitt-tomkins
I tried to block out all of the sex scandal accusations. Especially since the Democrats don’t live in a glass house either. Were Trump’s comments vulgar and offensive? Absolutely. But he’s hardly the only man like that. How it morphed into sexual assault is beyond me – what little I heard of it made me think he was bragging about consensual encounters; that like many rich and powerful men, he has an ego – so he stated a vulgar truism, that he probably could get just about any woman he wanted. He doesn’t speak for all, thankfully.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit
The reality is that Trump is a criminal. He is more qualified to be in prison than the white house.
And it’s old news anyway for those of us who remember reading about Bill’s antics. Pretty much the same thing – ego. Cringeworthy, all of it.
I wish they would have spent more time on the issues, not this kind of stuff.
Are you saying Trump being accused of sexual assault on numerous women is not important?
I’m saying whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Timing was everything around an election also. Whatever he did and said was 16 years ago. If it is true then by all means it is very important. But for some reason, it’s all faded into the background.
When you have a ton of women coming out and accusing you of sexual assault, do you really think all of them are lying? Trump should be in prison, not on his way to the white house. This shouldn’t have faded into the background.
I take it you’re all in on a “Herman Cain” assault on Tim Kaine for the next election cycle if he is a candidate for president. One of the reasons I didn’t vote for Trump was his similar assault of Ted Cruz.
Yes, he and Bill Clinton could share a cell for perverts.
You tried to “block out” all the sex scandal accusations? Thank you! Thank you for allowing me to peer inside the brains of how a woman could actually defend this amoeba passing as a man.
“Grab them by the pussy” is not consensual! It’s happened to me and I did not take it passively. It was not consensual and I did nothing to remotely ‘ask for it’. I knocked him to the floor and split his face open. I was working as a cocktail waitress, btw. Some people. Some people think they can do anything whey want and learn the hard way that not all of us play.
Comparing Donald Trump to Bill Clinton? Really? Clinton had affairs with adult women and one young adult intern. Trump? How about his buddy Jeffery Epstein who was Trump has coyly referenced and it’s a fact Trump hung out with him at his sex parties with young teen girls. Do you really thing Trump recused himself rom that? This isn’t about wildlife so I won’t post again on this subject but your comments got to me. Good god, how does anyone defend Trump or even remotely compare him to the Bill Clinton?
Raping 13 year olds and giddily talking about grabbing/assaulting women is what I call a vile and disgusting excuse for a human. Now we get to call him ‘president’.
+1
the orange anus has said it was OK to call his own daughter “a piece of ass”
and that is most certainly how he sees everyone else’ daughters IMO.
and that is a large part of my decision to not vote repugnant; I can look my wife and daughters in the face.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html
Yup…..
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit
Yup
Trump is good friends with Jeffrey Epstein. LOL
“A federal judge in New York has ordered counsel for Donald Trump and the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein to appear in court along with the attorney for a woman referred to only as “Jane Doe” who alleges the Republican presidential nominee raped her when she was 13.”
So I guess we can believe all the women accusing Trump but the women who claimed Bill Clinton raped or otherwise made unwanted sexual advances are liars. Typical Democrat hypocrisy.
Bill Clinton wasn’t running for POTUS deplorable. Changing the subject doesn’t change the fact that Trump is a sexual predator Mr. Zaspol.
Weren’t you paying attention! Hillary was complicate in her mudding the waters and sending her goons out to “drag a dollar through the trailer park” “bimbo eruption” backing. There was a reason the VERY FIRST thing she did when announcing her candidacy was to put out her “woman need to be believe” montage. She new full well her vulnerability in that area…. Jon looks like you fell hook line and sinker. Get back to wildlife!
yes back to wildlife. I think we should all just let Jon wallow in his bitterness and misery over this election.
I was insulted by those tactics. Either that or her party ran the show not respecting the intelligence of the voters, thinking lurid scandals would distract.
And as for winning the popular vote, it doesn’t say how many voted for her with serious concerns and reservations about it, such as myself. We only had two candidates really, to choose from.
Sexual assault is not a scandal. It’s a crime with real victims.
You don’t have to tell me, or other women who actually have experienced it. What I don’t appreciate is the Democrats using it as a political tool to win. It’s so obvious now that all of it has been dropped, now that the election is over.
Yvette, I had forgotten what had happened in my case, but you brought it to mind. My boss took me aside one day and told me that this ‘gentleman’ had been fired, or re-assigned to East Who-Knows-Where, but I think it was that he was let go.
He had developed quite a reputation for himself and I think it eventually caught up with him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_us_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834
You mad?
Jon,
I believe she dropped the accusation, again.
Why is a Donald Trump supporter on a wildlife blog? Don’t you know Trump and his sons are trophy hunters?
Yes, and Tim Kaine is/was a co-sponsor of the ‘bi-partisan’ Sportsmens Act. I do know this about the Trump sons, but I also know they aren’t the first or only ones who are. There are plenty, and the Democrats are on record supporting ‘the great tradition of hunting in our country’. I’ve not been impressed by the Democrats protections of our wildlife and wildlands. HRC was pretty mum about it.
I appreciated Don Jr.’s words about the soul of the public lands, which I’m sorry to see were taken out of context by the media reports. While I am not thrilled about hunting, especially for trophies, I have hope now that this and only this fact might save our public lands from oil and gas development, over-recreating, over-logging, and other such exploitations.
Tim Kaine is a disgrace, but I am equally mad at the democrats in congress who act more like right wingers when it comes to wildlife. Tammy Baldwin, Al Franken, Amy Klobacher, etc are just some of the many democrats I am utterly disgusted with. Tammy Baldwin just be standing for wolves, not supporting their killing by sport hunters.
Ida, Wouldn’t it be nice if folks like you were more into re-habituating and reclaiming areas where those resources you just mentioned were exhausted. The natural resource those elk provide to the great people of Kentucky is remarkable. Thanks you sportman and “trophy” hunters that make those things happen. Groups and people that have a hatred for the “trophy” hunters waste more resources that could truly help wildlife. I have absolved myself of those groups and people. The election (I think) has run parallel to how those with a real stake in wildlife feel about political correctness and soon I think the ESA and CWA will take a hit. I know who I will blame.
http://www.trailsrus.com/elk/reclaimedlands.html
Hunting and environmental groups have much in common, shrewd politicians are great at forcing the wedge between the group, no different then wilderness advocates and bicyclists
The Democratic Party however imperfect is a much better choice lately if the main concern is upholding wildlife and environmental protections
The Nixonian and Roosevelt republicans who advanced environmental or wilderness protections despite their shortcomings seem to have somehow been sucked into tbe insanity of the fundamentalist republican regime where plunder greed and lies are virtues instead of liabilities
The difference is little Timmy is that we have Trump in his own words on tape admitting to sexual predatory behavior. When you find a tape of BC admitting he is a sexual predator on tape, let me know. I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton back in the 1990s, but it’s always laughable when someone points out to you right wingers that Trump is a sexual predator and all you right wingers can come back with is but but Bill Clinton. Trump used to play golf with Bill Clinton. If Bill Clinton was so bad, why was Trump playing golf with him? When you have numerous women coming out and claiming they were raped and putting their reputations on the line, chances are a few of them are telling the truth. Trump belongs in prison, not the white house.
Jon, and others, please don’t call each other diminishing names. It is hard enough to talk about politics without adding that kind of emotion. Mostly I think this web site does very well compared to others. Let’s keep it that way. WEBMASTER
Ralph, I meant to thank you for having the sensitivity to post this. It’s very decent of you.
If you wish, feel free to delete the entire exchange – I’m sure no one wants to be made to feel uncomfortable reading it. Thx.
I’m glad to see the webmaster stepping in. This great site is too often disfigured by exchanges of personal attacks.
Yes, I block it out because it is hypocrisy. Yes, I’ve been grabbed and put men in their place or avoided them or complained to my boss (my boss was outraged, there are decent men in the world).
Democrats act like DT is the only man on earth who disrespects women or talked that way about them. The entire culture does, and it is very hypocritical. I’ve never seen so many rape and sexual assault accusations as during this election. I choose to rise above it. If people can’t see that it was used as a way to win an election and to avoid the issues I don’t know what to say, because now it has been dropped, except for the pending case which for right now is an accusation.
As far as underage girls, you didn’t mention Anthony Weiner compulsively sexting women and at least one underage girl, of which there is actual proof. And after being caught once already. I read in the New York Post that he is at a sex addiction clinic, and he was pictured riding a horse. I’d watch out for underage girls around him, and also wouldn’t trust him around the mares either.
And I’m done with this nothing but a distraction sideshow and prefer to stick to real issues, not personal ones.
The new low in lows is picking on a ten-year old child:
http://www.businessinsider.com/melania-to-sue-over-youtube-video-son-has-autism-rosie-odonnell-2016-11
She is just like her predator husband. Threatening to sue everybody who dare say a negative thing about them or someone else in their family.
“Encino-Based Animal Rights Group Slams Plan to Kill Mountain Lion:
Plans to destroy a mountain lion that killed 11 alpaca and a goat last weekend is drawing a lot of pushback”
Excerpt: “Eliminating P-45 does not solve the problem, especially given there are at least four mountain lions in the Santa Monica Mountains that have killed livestock over the past year,” Kate Kuykendall, acting deputy superintendent for the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area, said in a statement quoted by the Daily News. “Nor is P-45’s behavior abnormal or aberrant in any way.”
http://patch.com/california/encino/encino-based-animal-rights-group-slams-plan-kill-mountain-lion
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0797-cloned-dogs-arrive-in-yakutia-next-woolly-mammoths/
‘We will select a superior species of dogs suitable for police missions to have the best police dogs ever,’ they said”
Do you suppose a “superior species” of humans, suitable for police missions, is also something this guy (or others in the field) have probably contemplated?
I think all countries have those scenarios in conversation
Kind of frightening, don’t you think? As our species get’s better & better at “cherry picking” who or what, is going to be important/make the cut, for the long term survival of our species.
ya, you might want to research the term “eugenics” and how it was implemented in America in the not to distant past as well as other countries. It was not just Hitler’s Germany that “breeding programs” were taking place. Cloning was always considered one of the goals of such programs.
Sieg Heil!
Welcome to the ethical challenges (as well as economic and power incentives) of the 21st Century. First the drug sniffing clone dogs, then the universal soldier. As Immer says: “Sieg Heil.” I guess we have been there before, but now with the prospect of frightening reality, and within the grasp of several cultures with competent scientists, curiosity and unrestrained will.
“Yellowstone park looks at large bison cull to trim herds”
Excerpt: “BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Yellowstone National Park biologists say more than 900 wild bison would need to be killed or removed this winter to begin reducing the size of herds that spill into neighboring Montana.”
This AP article (no byline) continues to cite brucellosis, public safety, and property damage concerns.
http://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/yellowstone-park-looks-at-large-bison-cull-to-trim-herds/article_6c47a343-bde4-583d-9e93-b333c192746e.html
From Buffalo Field Campaign: “This terrible article could have been written by the buffalo killers themselves. And they lie: people who live with the buffalo are *not* complaining, they are celebrating. Corporate media represents corporate interests, spinning the truth to meet their agenda. PLEASE MAKE TWO CALLS:
*Yellowstone Superintendent Dan Wenk #307-344-2002
*Montana Governor Steve Bullock #406-444-3111”
TELL THEM TO STOP THEIR SLAUGHTER PLANS!
“Brucellosis found in 2 bulls on Beaverhead County ranch”
Excerpt: “Officials have determined elk to be the likely source of the brucellosis infections in livestock in the Greater Yellowstone Area.”
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/brucellosis-found-in-bulls-on-beaverhead-county-ranch/article_bb7a3fd2-ea74-5cd7-8b0b-3320f9bf969d.html
Sigh. Bow hunter shoots 12 year old leukemia patient’s therapy dog.
What is the deal with these people? Are they just stupid?
http://www.newson6.com/story/33836886/therapy-dog-of-12-year-old-battling-cancer-killed-by-bow-hunter
Sad story but I think the Grandfather summed it up, Yvette “you know you cant hunt deer with that dog barking” And not just any dog barking – hound cross (basset/coon?) bet his “baying” (not barking) got to this hunter, trying to stalk deer in what looks like a dense, wooded area.
Don’t know if it would of made a difference but a fenced yard might of helped in this situation and there’s no evidence of that in the video.
More to this story than what was covered?
Bow hunting anything is sickening
I know that will raise ire
Whether for food or not
Being shot with an arrow must be an excruciatingly painful way to go
The deer probably don’t appreciate bullets either – your evidence there isn’t clear. I find arrowed deer die pretty fast, though it’s true we don’t take head shots. Gun hunters near me (like my in-laws) have a hard time passing up shots – if they see a deer, they need to shoot at it, and it can end up being a bad shot. They feel too much pressure (like on an opening day and the few days after that) and are too excited cause they aren’t used to having to watch them at a distance for minutes or hours. They don’t get to observe much deer behavior as a result, and that makes them worse hunters too. They fail to recover more than I do. Bow hunters are used to deer “getting away” most of the time, and the pressure is low in a 6 week season that gets better toward the end. See many, shoot very few, and take only good shots is the rule for bow hunters I know, and we remind ourselves of that. It put three in my freezer this year. And gun hunting season here is not nearly as nice – more like a war zone. I’m glad I had enough meat before it started.
This is sickening. There’s no way in hell that little dog needed to be killed with an arrow to the head no matter *whose* dog he was. Really? Is life that cheap? Maybe it is, to someone with a weapon in his hands out to kill a different animal. Barking is not a capital crime.
Kathleen, please don’t take my comments as condoning the senseless killing of this dog but I do have to wonder why the grandfather didn’t get a name and press charges against this sorry excuse for a hunter.
If someone had killed my dog (my best friend by the way) on my property, you can bet, I’d of moved “heaven and earth” to have that person charged, starting with animal abuse.
No, Nancy, not at all, my comment wasn’t directed at you. I just find this terribly distressing. I’m sick of the endless killing. We started our morning with the newspaper story about the “hunt of a lifetime” for a trophy-grade mule deer–about a guy who has spent 45 years (!) looking for a trophy mule deer, after killing animals “all over the world.” When is enough killing enough?!? Now you have to kill someone whose antlers are ‘big enough’? How pathetic. What really set me off was this: “Once they get into that six-year-old range, they have this uncanny ability to hide,” he said. “They often go nocturnal and become just plain sneaky.” SNEAKY?!? They are just trying to stay alive! I hate the way hunters/anglers are compelled to enhance their killing quest and their skill–the animals are “sneaky.” The fish “put up a fight” on the line. No, this has nothing to do with the hunter and his/her awesome skill. The animals are wary, frightened, and just want to live.
http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/recreation/hunt-of-a-lifetime-best-mule-deer-districts-work-of/article_c7169336-82e7-5b45-9d6a-7fc995bd9a54.html
Yes, I too would go after anyone who harmed my companion animals. The article said the grandfather is a preacher who “turned the other cheek” and felt that his granddaughter’s tears were punishment enough. I seriously doubt that.
IMHO, words like apathy, are slowly AND systematically, being removed from mankind’s vocabulary….
IMHO, words like apathy, are slowly AND systematically, being removed from mankind’s vocabulary….”
++++ Indeed
I think all that love wildlife and our public lands will need to join together and share suggestions on ways to fight Trumps anti-environment,anti-wildlife agenda. There is far too much at stake
Indeed. I’ve started connecting with others to work on what we think is coming. There is much to resist and fight when it comes to Trump’s yet to be determined agenda. Given the people he is selecting to fill positions I think we’re in for a big battles and dark days. I go to sleep thinking about it and it’s the first thing on my mind when I wake. <<<<<< I've never been that way on anything before.
Connect with others because I do believe Trump will be met with much resistance. Let's flip the Senate in 2 years and get more progressives in the House. I'm a pessimist by nature, and I told a friend we're in a David and Goliath battle. He reminded me that David won that battle. Good point.
One of my favorite quotes: "Thus far and no further" ~ Ed Abby
A good read. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation?CMP=share_btn_fb
Connect with others, especially young adults. No point in going down without a fight.
Now Yvette, don’t think this will happen. In the midterm elections, as for the Senate, there will be 32 Senators up for reelection with 8 being Republicans and 24 being Democrats. As for the Democrats, most of them come from Red Republican States that went for Trump in the election. Do think the opposite will occur with the Republican increasing their majority. And the Republicans in the Senate possibly becoming filibuster proof for the Republicans having the majority.
Do think that if the Democrats want to stay in the game then they need to leave their identity and far left politics and move more to the center where they will appeal to the average middle American voter. Look at the map, most of the country is paved in red. They lost this election for certain reasons and in what I am hearing so far, it seems they have NOT NOT learned the lesson as of yet. Maybe a period of years in the political wilderness, they will learn their lessons. As of always every election seems to be about money and economics. And right now the Republicans have the winning hand bigtime. When it comes to the environment, how few, very very few, on either side in this last election didn’t even say a thing with many an environmental issue not even being raised it seems.
In short, do think, if Donald Trump is any way successful, then expect the Republicans to have another big victory in the midterm elections in my personal opinion.
Also think of this, how many many administrations have come and gone and there is how much empty land beyond the end of the road still existing. Do think this administration will come and go, how how much of that country will still be there wild and nice as always in my opinion. Now have met them but there are many hunters and fisherman that are concerned for the outdoor environment also. Donald Trump’s sons are big hunters also in what I have heard. As the old saying, ‘At The End Of The Road Where The Trails and Life Begin’.
“Wild and Nice”. Depends on what you call wild and nice. “As always’…..what is your starting date and I bet I could find plenty of evident that ‘as always’ won’t hold up.
Before Standing Rock there was/is Oak Flats.
This is what McCain and other repubs did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiME3XWEPjU
There was a semi-stop, but the republicans will not stop. Their appetite for money and land resources is like demon seeking souls. Insatiable.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/03/17/oak-flat-historic-designation-win-mine-opponents-fight-may-continue-163775
This is what they’ve done. It appears the groundwater has been depleted. I’ll need to follow up to see if there is good research on contributing factors.
https://www.facebook.com/Apache-Stronghold-802193869856079/?fref=ts
As far as ‘learning lessons’ from this election, it’s the same message in my region, but louder and bolder. I see the election of Trump as White Man’s Last Stand. As Van Jones stated, “this is Whitelash”. So no, I will not listen. I’m not a good democrat anyway.
Even in deep trumpsville, people are organizing. I realize Trump is not ‘draining the swamp’ as he promised his minions, and may lose a few supporters between now and the next two years. I’m in Oklahoma, a bottom of the barrel state; a state that loves Mississippi since it keeps us from ranking 50th everywhere we should be striving to rank 1st; and vice versa. I work less than 20 miles down the highway from nasty Cushing, OK, the largest oil storage facility in the world. Many years ago, I use to monitor streams in the surrounding countryside. I’ve seen my share of their nasty oil spills and leaks.
Labor Day weekend, there was a 5.6 earthquake with the epicenter in Pawnee, about 50 miles from Cushing. There was 5.3 magnitude earthquake with downtown Cushing as the epicenter. The increase in the frequency and magnitude of earthquakes in OK is directly related to fracking wastewater injection wells.
Add the oil spills to the earthquakes and we have multiple disasters. On Oct. 25th there was a large oil spill large enough to shut down one of the pipelines.
Oklahoma is deep red trumpsville, so I am well aware of America’s red zone. God bless their little hearts. It is also a hotbed of White Nationalist activity. Just today, an acquaintance, who is an attorney, was greeted with the Hitler salute and a racist comment as he left the Tulsa courthouse. The one thing this leftist is happy about is this is a ‘stand your ground’ state and we can be licensed for concealed or open carry.
I’ll fight the trumpsters and the McCain types who are so willing to sell our natural world to the highest bidder. I’ll fight them way to hell if necessary.
You should come join some meetings of medical scientists. It’s been a bit gloomy. But we are all commies who want universal health care, more research, think HPV vaccines averting cancer is great, and like diversity cause it’s fun and demonstrably leads to better science. Most of us don’t even think the rich are too poor but that’s not really a science issue. I live in a bubble. A nice bubble.
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/montana/migrating-snow-geese-survive-landing-in-contaminated-water/193104802
So are they trying to say the water is safe to drink now or will the geese start dropping like flies, somewhere over Wyoming or Nebraska?
So apparently there *are* mortalities.
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/small-number-of-snow-geese-dead-on-berkeley-pit/article_e4e94cfd-69e0-5888-a53a-0424c2ceeb00.html
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mountain-lion-reprieve-20161201-story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/01/fearful-of-trump-environmentalists-call-on-his-children-to-help-save-the-planet/?utm_term=.83ce662b1681#comments
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/house-science-committee-tweets-climate-change-denying-breitbart-article-debunked-n690986
But that’s the House of Representatives Committee on Science, of a country with the best science in the world – surely they are well informed.
http://www.reabic.net/journals/bir/2016/4/BIR_2016_Boback_etal.pdf
I thought this site was for “interesting wildlife news” but it seems it has become a political science forum. I could care less about politicians and instead focus my time and resources on the people who are directly involved in how land and wildlife is affected.
For those interested in wildlife viewing, check out this video taken in the Cascade Mountains of Washington. I have a few wildlife cameras that I put out and I’m amazed at how many different species I see.
99% of the time Gary, my focus is on wildlife & their diminishing landscape but its not hard on this site (Wildlife News) to get hung up in political debate/opinion when worried about what the next set of politicians elected, are going to do.
This appears to be a great project, bringing wildlife center stage in a lot of areas, for people who seldom spent the time to find out what lives close by but I have to admit, I found the ” bear baiting” in the first frames, disturbing. Hope that’s not the norm when trying to capture wildlife on video.
UM has a project like this. Article, video, and a bunch of pictures near the bottom.
http://ns.umich.edu/new/cameras
Up north our best closeups of otter, badger, bobcat, bear, etc, come from the tail cams. I’m not fond of trophy deer hunters using them as an assist on public land – seems like cheating.
All too often some of the regular participants here indulge themselves in mutual mudslinging, which is of interest ONLY to themselves. I wish they would refrain from personal attacks and stick to discussing the issues.
(*relurk*)
Enjoyable issue of Current Conservation Magazine with the focus on human-wildlife conflict. These articles are based out of Norway and India rather than America.
http://www.currentconservation.org/sites/default/files/archive-issues/CC_4.4.pdf
Southeastern Minnesota deer hunters dreading herd reduction as antidote to CWD
http://www.startribune.com/southeastern-minnesota-deer-hunters-dreading-herd-reduction-as-antidote-to-cwd/404501696/
Elk and deer farming appear to be complicit
Thanks. With WI on both our borders doing so little so late it seems dispersal will bring CWD to MI and MN in time, just by that means. I’m wondering if there will be lawsuits, cause WI’s poor response to CWD is likely to cause economic losses in neighboring states.
PS: My reading of the article was that this case was likely NOT caused by deer farms. It takes only 1 person to sling a deer carcass from WI in the ditch. That said, I favor much stronger rules for such things though – very very little movement of captive deer, very strong oversight and rules about fencing (double fences), etc. I’d be OK with outlawing moving captive deer entirely.
Perhaps it would have been better if I had said there appears a correlation between areas of CWD breakout and game farms. Correlation does not necessarily mean cause. The poor efforts of Wisconsin and Iowa in controlling CWD are the more likely “correlation”.
People also need to stop feeding deer.
This might have been posted already–apologies, if it has. I hadn’t seen it until now and was shocked to see one of the names being considered. “Trump’s Interior candidates would play Russian roulette with West”:
Excerpt: “Another candidate for secretary of Interior hails from the far-right fringe of the sportsmen’s advocacy world. Don Peay is the founder of Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, an anti-predator group that has expressed a desire to wipe out large native carnivores as a means to produce more trophy elk and deer.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/energy-environment/308308-trumps-interior-candidates-would-play-russian-roulette
For those not familiar with Don Peay – a thread from a few years ago on WN:
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/06/24/new-sportsmens-group-enters-wolf-fray-but-what-is-their-real-agenda/
He wouldn’t. This man would never be confirmed, too much conflict of interest. There’s a scandal associated with him about mishandling or accountability of state funds or something associated with a ‘wolf management'(I thought I read it was actually for a highly-paid lobbyist). As we know Utah has no wolves (at least the four-legged kind). He has gone hunting with the Trump boys though:
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/politics/56567083-90/money-utah-forever-game.html.csp
http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-sportsman-hunts-with-trumps-sons-calls-them-authentic-blue-collar-kids
I agree that he’s not a legitimate candidate and couldn’t be confirmed, but the very idea that such an unqualified extremist would be considered–even just in passing–is mind-boggling. Unless his name was thrown out there simply as a twist of the knife for enviros and animal activists who’ve been so vocally opposed to All Things Trump.
@ Ida. Since when has conflict of interest or scandals stopped Trump or any of his supporters or defenders, such as yourself.
I did not vote for Trump, so the fact that a flawed candidate is in office despite conflicts or scandals surrounding him has nothing to do with me! I did not vote for third party candidates either. But the man is President now.
But I no longer feel I need to preface my opinions with ‘but I did not vote for him and I am not a supporter….’ etc. However, I do believe in fairness and doing the right thing.
Yes no egregious outrageous disturbing choice seems to escape the tyrant and his cronies
Paul Ryan frothing at the mouth with glee
These people in trumps world are asshole s as JB rightly stated
I’m sick with grief go see this man about to inhabit the White House m
Sick to see that Americans let it happen
And some voted for this monster
“wipe out” is a little strong Kathleen. I saw him speak in WI a few months ago. Nothing about “wiping out” anything other than those that abuse the Endangered Species Act???
His words…/.
“A few wolves are OK,” said Don Peay, founder of Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and a speaker at the summit. “They’re part of the system.”
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/09/16/wisconsin-wolf-summit-leans-toward-delisting-killing-animals
The Lyons Wisconsin Wolf Summit Conference. Very little to do with anything else but killing a boatload of wolves.
Don Peay is a Trump wannabe. He single-handedly killed a compromise wolf management plan in Utah through back-channel politics, leaving Utah with a legislator-driven ‘no wolves, no way’ policy. When I worked in Utah, the folks in the know said he drove wildlife policy in the state–and not for the good (though to be fair, not always for the bad). He drove a friend of mine, who was the big game manager and now directs research in another state, out of the state, calling him a ‘lion lover’ because he thought it was irresponsible to increase harvest quotas on cougars. So in sum, the guy is a first rate asshole.
Is he a FRAH because it sounds like all wildlife in Utah are thriving? What public lands ecosystems are failing? Do the private land owners have the tools to manage their properties as they see fit? Are the cougars “wiped out” in Utah?
https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/cmgtplan.pdf
JB
http://www.hcn.org/issues/349/17076?b_start:int=1#body
He is not afraid to tell it as he sees it, is he. See the last line in this article.
Don Peay logic from “The Real Wolf”.
Wolf numbers and Don Peay logic. A source of continued exaggeration in The Real Wolf are wolf numbers in North America in general and the lower 48 in particular. No one knows the exact number of wolves, but wolf estimates in the NRM states has been about 1700, and decreasing due to hunts. The Real Wolf says an estimated 6,000 wolves live in the Great Lakes states of MN, WI, and MI. Recent DNR estimates are MN 2200, WI 800-900, and MI about 700 wolves all of which include statistical error with adjustments up or down. This is an exaggeration of over 37%. This type of distortion continues throughout The Real Wolf. Don Peay uses a financial model to estimate wolf numbers in the northern Rocky Mountain States, but does not figure in average annual wolf mortality of 23-27% and thus arrives at the inflated number of 2,842 wolves. Don Peay’s essay concludes with “Well, as we now know, there has been an 80% reduction in the greater Yellowstone elk herds, moose are for all practical purposes gone from Yellowstone, and now the bison are the final prey… and they are declining as well”. However we find, as of 3/7/14 the annual Yellowstone bison slaughter is done for the season with removal of almost 600 animals. 258 bison were captured and removed for slaughter, at least 264 killed by hunters and 60 placed in an animal contraceptive experiment, as part of ongoing effort to reduce Yellowstone bison herds to about 3,000 animals under an agreement with Montana. Ranchers outside the park have a low tolerance for the animals because of concerns about bison spreading disease and edging out cattle for grass, nothing to do with wolves.
All figures provided from early 2014.
Immer, I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) the state of Minnesota’s wolf management plan has a population goal of 1600 wolves. The question I have is , with 2200 wolves now how well have they faired in the habitat they are moving into? Do they cause issues? If you think they need even more wolves, how are they going to fit in in the habitat your proposing to put them in? Has there been any research into how well the expanded population has done? What do the Minnesota statistics say? Has unmanaged wolves had any affect on game herds? Secondary prey? I think you know the answers to those questions… Hearing Don talk, the one thing I know is that Don Peay is not afraid to dig into those numbers!
All wildlife cause issues. Deer are a big problem to farms, people, and automobiles. Keep your CWD deer in WI and out of MN and MI.
1600 is the bottom line in MN, not the top.
Peay bakes his own figures, or should we say, another “straight talker.”
Just when I thought I couldn’t hate Trump more……….
Over and over again proof of how childish he is – his latest tweet. LOVED Baldwin’s response 🙂
“Just tried watching Saturday Night Live – unwatchable!” Trump tweeted. “Totally biased, not funny and the Baldwin impersonation just can’t get any worse. Sad.”
Trump didn’t even wait until the show was over to give his opinion, tweeting his take during the live NBC broadcast on Saturday night.
Alec Baldwin, the man who has played Trump all season on the longtime sketch comedy series, responded directly to Trump.
“Release your tax returns and I’ll stop,” Baldwin tweeted during the broadcast
Army Corps blocks route of Dakota Access pipeline in ND
http://missoulian.com/ap/business/army-corps-blocks-route-of-dakota-access-oil-pipeline/article_94bfadf0-3f9e-57f0-b3fd-dfb889073154.html
FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!! Big shout out to the vets who came to support this movement.
Yes. I was also very pleased to see our veterans stepping up too.
“Rare weasel species makes a comeback in Washington state”
Excerpt: “One by one, 10 Pacific fishers that had been trapped in British Columbia were set free at the park south of Seattle as part of a multiyear effort to reintroduce the native species to its historical range.”
This was at Mt. Rainier Nat’l Park. Unfortunately, they released *Canadian* fishers–everyone knows they are *bigger and meaner*! Check out the great fisher pics (2) that accompany the article.
http://missoulian.com/news/national/rare-weasel-species-makes-a-comeback-in-washington-state/article_2ef55892-688b-5c37-8123-cb47601bd885.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/01/what-can-we-learn-from-romanias-grizzly-experience/
Not sure if already posted (I got it from Jon Way’s website). Interesting implications for North America’s predator control methodologies
Estonia (the Baltic state):
population 1.3M
total area 17 505 sq mi
forest area ~50%
grizzly bears – 700
from 2007 to 2010 bears destroyed 66-170 beehives annually with a cost in a range of 9-20K euro
There are eight known cases from Estonia when bears have been shot in self-defence from short
distance while four of them were wintering females with cubs. In none of those cases bears had actually attacked people.
http://www2.nina.no/lcie_new/pdf/635379340188248258_LC_action%20plan_Estonia_2012-2021.pdf
Here’s a disaster in the making:
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/10/22/colorado-may-kill-more-bears-mountain-lions-to-boost-deer-population/
Folks these types of proposals are pure folly; it’s all about the money. Please email the CPW commission and stop this folly!
Bill Nye (the Science Guy) has a message for whoever leads Trump’s Interior Department
Excerpt: “If we did not have to have an army or military on the other side of the world preserving our extractive industries and fossil fuel burning, that would free up billions of U.S. dollars for other purposes,” Nye said. “The national parks could certainly be first in line if you went that route.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-nye-national-parks_us_5841e9f7e4b017f37fe4a1b7
“Snow geese deaths number in the thousands”
Berkeley Pit strikes again…
Excerpt: “Montana Resources and Atlantic Richfield Company officials say they are not yet ready to release a hard number because federal and state agencies have to verify numbers collected. But MR manager of environmental affairs Mark Thompson said the mining company expects the final number to be several times greater than the 1995 snow goose die-off incident.”
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/butte-mine-officials-snow-geese-deaths-number-into-the-thousands/article_9a1aada1-c140-543e-b823-c778ae514ad7.html
Not just snow geese that are a real concern. An article written 16 years ago:
“Some 3 million gallons of groundwater seep into the lake daily (pit) raising the surface by about one foot a month. Engineers predict that in about 20 years the water in the pit will rise to the same level as the surrounding groundwater.
From that point on, any more water that enters the ground will flow in the opposite direction. The flow will reverse course, polluting the alluvial aquifer in the valley below the mine and discharging toxic metals into Silver Bow Creek, the headwaters of the Clarks Fork River.
To prevent this calamity, the Atlantic Richfield Company, which is responsible for Superfund reclamation costs, have to construct a treatment plant before the critical level is reached”
http://discovermagazine.com/2000/dec/featnewlife
http://www.pitwatch.org/berkeley-pit-history/
Jeez, now it says someone is making money on this as a tourist attraction!!
I realize this is an older mine, but I don’t know how anyone can possibly entertain the idea of a new one like Pebble in Alaska headwaters. Greed and money just overpower, I guess. Take the money and run, and who cares about clean water. Terrible.
I remember reading about the Fort McMurray fire in Canada, and someone being quoted as saying they realize how it destroys the environment, but he needs a job. 🙁
I wonder why more isn’t being done to get these people to clean up by the EPA? It’s the same old story, Animas recently, and I’ll bet there are many more.
Wow. Can’t they cover it or use that good ol’ fladry to discourage them? Shrugging their shoulders and walking away is rather callous. Human activity = death for wildlife. Did Atlantic Richfield qualify for exemption from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and/or take permits? Sure sounds like it, otherwise they would have been fined. Cold-blooded and shameful of the government as well as the company.
If the pit was ‘white with geese’ it sounds like the ‘voluntary hazing program’ is a complete failure!
It’s huge–a mile long, 1/2 mile wide. The water is 900 ft. deep. It even has a website: http://www.pitwatch.org/
Which, I now see, Nancy posted above.
And more than one FB page…
https://www.facebook.com/Berkeley-Pit-Headwaters-Silver-Bow-Creek-414564491989476/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE&fref=nf
Berkeley Pit Viewing Stand (!) https://www.facebook.com/pages/Berkeley-Pit-Viewing-Stand/145496122141919
https://www.facebook.com/Berkeley-Pit-145652242142839/
And a pretty good video overview
NOT doing enough to prevent this kind of tragedy:
Trump names Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma attorney general suing EPA on climate change, to head the EPA
“Pruitt has spent much of his energy as attorney general fighting against the agency he will now lead.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/07/trump-names-scott-pruitt-oklahoma-attorney-general-suing-epa-on-climate-change-to-head-the-epa/?utm_term=.a8195f02753a
I was just getting ready to post about this. Here is the announcement from The Hill, http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/309266-trump-taps-oklahoma-attorney-general-to-lead-epa
Pruitt is pro oil and gas (of course); pro coal; anti-EPA; and anti-Native American. He hates Indians and tribes. I just got off of the phone with a friend and project officer at EPA. He didn’t know yet, but went silent when I informed him of this horrific news.
Additionally, Markwayne Mullin, the republican representative for Senate district # 2 in Oklahoma. Mullin is a ‘card carrying’ Cherokee and is on Trump’s Native American coalition. Mullin stated, “We should take tribal land away from public treatment,” said Markwayne Mullin, a Republican U.S. Representative from Oklahoma and a Cherokee tribe member who is co-chairing Trump’s Native American Affairs Coalition. “As long as we can do it without unintended consequences, I think we will have broad support around Indian country.”
None of this is good for our public lands and wildlife.
This will backfire on Trump/Pence…wait and see
Not good at all. I hope this appointment is vigorously challenged.
Energy policy is a bit too complicated for our average folks in the US. We will need to invest trillions, which you can easily scare people with (or the loss of fossil fuel jobs). But it will create a ton of other jobs, and the costs of inaction are even higher by most estimates. And they usually don’t even consider health, sprawl, pollution, ocean death. Joe Romm has argued “it’ll be super-cheap” actually. But a billion spent on politics is a great investment if your name is Koch, so it is nothing like easy.
PS: An irritating meme (from fossil fuel folks I figure) I’ve seen lately is that we don’t do hydro enough. They point to all the places we could have generating dams. But it’s not cost effective – generation at several dams near me has stopped cause it loses money, even though it is already built. And even if we dammed every trickle, we go from perhaps 3% of our energy to, maybe 5%. It is a distraction.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/giraffes-threatened-extinction-112157397.html
“Hunter kills the last of the Druid wolves”
Excerpt: “The size, aggression and smarts led 778M to a long, productive life, in wolf terms. At 9 1/2 years old, 778M was among the oldest known male wolves since the large carnivore species was reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park 21 years ago. Before being shot and killed by a Montana hunter last month, the big alpha was also the last living member of the Druid Peak Pack, which grew to an almost unheard of 37 animals, was witnessed by 100,000 visitors and helped make wolf-watching into big business.”
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/hunter-kills-the-last-of-the-druid-wolves/article_5e160cf2-9cd6-5cae-a537-53b984269af5.html
how tragic.
Yes. Wolf delisting – the gift that keeps on taking. Another dubious award for hunting.
The size, aggression and smarts led 778M to a long, productive life, in wolf terms.
All brought to an abrupt end by an entitled human who has no care or concept of the value of life except for his own and his own kind.
More Interagency Bison Management Plan folly:
http://buffalofieldcampaign.org/bfc-news/agencies-tribes-plan-large-buffalo-slaughter-this-winter
Excellent opinion piece in today’s paper by BFC:
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/support-plan-that-respects-buffalo/article_e3365eee-ec1e-5a8e-a3a5-5394fb356c3f.html
Not necessarily good news, but the price of predator control has risen again.
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ap_news/montana/killed-injured-in-small-plane-crash-in-northern-wyoming/article_30a507cd-c26f-5bf0-925d-0c1b8a3fe31f.html
GOOD RIDDANCE
Sometimes,Jon, it is best not to say anything at all. I may not care for a lot of things that happen around me, but ill feelings or harm to others or gleeful over someone else’s fate, won’t make me or anyone else a better person.
Rita, You are correct, it is at times best to not say anything at all. And being gleeful over someone else’s fate shows character unbecoming of the righteous. Though, I think the true meaning of “good riddance” is more in line with relief or being free of something, which makes the statement ironic. Ironic, because Jon will never be free of predator control. They ban hunting of cougars in CA yet have to kill them by the hundreds each year. They overturn science based state wolf management plans stopping hunting of wolves in Minnesota, but still have to kill them in great numbers each year. Jon lives in a world where he can never be at peace. Ironic!
You’re a liar.
Jon: Keep it to yourself. You make wolf fans look bad.
I’m just saying what most sane people are thinking.
Follow-up to this crash.
http://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20161207X91325&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
Pilot error or mechanical failure? Having witnessed this kind of “animal damage management” in action, on more than a couple of occasions, I’m wondering if it was pilot error? Flying barely above treetops, too close to hillsides, pushing the envelope trying to get a good shoot at their prey.
Airplane owned by Wyoming wool growers association. Most likely out shooting at coyotes? Dying to protect a few sheep, trying to kill coyotes? Tragic waste of life
Agree, most likely coyotes and yes, a tragic waster of life. Lots of prayers being sent out to the families (on page one) but nobody connecting the dots (as in dying to protect a few sheep)
Comments from a “Die Hard” member on Predator Masters Forum:
“According to the Big Horn County Coroner’s Office, 34-year-old Grant Belden, of Thermopolis, died at the scene of the crash Wednesday and 56-year-old Miles Hausner survived the crash. Hausner is being treated at a Billings, Montana, hospital.
I spoke with an old timer retired from the predator control board and he was told the pilot was a student pilot practicing gunning runs. That is unofficial and very preliminary. The exact cause is still under investigation”
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3016239&page=2
Well, nobody forced these men to do this or get into this line of work – it’s inherently risky. It’s unfortunate, but I don’t know that I’d elevate it to a tragedy. It was forseeable and avoidable. It isn’t even necessary, don’t we have enough ways to kill other inhabitants of the planet already, without air assaults too? In fairness to Jon, a comment made in the frustration of it all shouldn’t be ‘unspeakable’.
Or it shouldn’t be considered blasphemy, I should say, to negatively comment about our awful behavior. We’re not gods, even though we think we are.
Ida, we no nothing about the young man who died (piloting the plane) Obviously he had a love for flying but from the sounds of it, inexperienced in gunning runs.
He may of been brought up to think this was one of the best ways to address predators. But one thing we will never know, is the future opinions/thoughts or positive input, this young man might of had to offer, after doing this kind of disgusting work for awhile.
So yeah, tragic waste of life.
I would call Aleppo a tragedy.
And young man? The man was 34 years old and fully adult. If he was employed by Wildlife Services, I think we have some idea of what his contribution to the world was. They have trapping, poisons, bounties and God knows what else available to them for predator killings, so it isn’t the only way. If the poor animals are pursued into the furthest reaches of the mountains, I don’t think they are going to be a threat to ranching?
Making excuses for and being apologists for killing predators virtually ensures that nothing will change, and is part of the problem, and sends the message than human activities of any kind are ‘more important’ than other life on the planet.
I’m 65 Ida, so yeah, 34, is definitely young to me 🙂 And I’m guessing, you didn’t read Wolfer, by Carter Neimeyer?
http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/wolvesinidaho/niemeyer.cfm
As SB use to say “get off your high horse” Ida.
Just because this young man worked for WS, doesn’t mean his future was locked into gunning down wildlife, like maybe that smiling face with WS (or contracted though) fly boy, over in Idaho, a few years ago featured here on a thread, shooting wolves… for a paycheck.
Your lack of knowledge on the subject of predators in western states, the good and bad, is summed up by your simple minded statement:
“If the poor animals are pursued into the furthest reaches of the mountains, I don’t think they are going to be a threat to ranching?”
Well said Nancy. Nobody knows much about the pilot. If he was still a student pilot, one of the means of moving to your next ticket is logging hours. It doesn’t matter how old he was. Perhaps it was his only way to log hours, and he could do it for free. Aviation fuel is expensive.
Humans killing tons of wildlife for despicable reasons is a tragedy.
Tragic waste of life, in that, it did not have to happen. A war has been waged on coyotes for decades, and there are more than ever. It did not have to happen. This “war” will continue to protect a few sheep, and we’ll most likely read of another flight connected with WS going down with fatalities. It doesn’t have to happen.
Not really what I wanted to say, but it will suffice.
In many states immer, coyotes can be shot on sight. Coyote pups can be killed. We treat coyotes like crap. They have a right to live. Personally, I find the people who work for wildlife services to be despicable people guilty of real crimes against wildlife. As an animal lover, I shed no tears if their planes crash. These are disgusting people.
Jon,
I’ll not argue with you on the topic of coyotes. The persecution of that animal has been one of the reasons for its rapid, relatively speaking, expansion. The gutslammer mentality in the country must come to an end. That said, there are many among us on the earth who’s demise would be welcomed, yet, an accident of this sort, resulting in death, is on the backs of the Wyoming Wool Growers Association. The man died for sheep.
Immer,
When did GF get a new screen name and move to Maine?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/12/17/maine-man-wins-right-to-wear-goat-horns-in-license-photo-saying-they-are-religious-attire/?utm_term=.16d8aba7a94b
Hah! That will probably spur a few posts.
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/montana/goose-hunters-urged-to-wait-to-consume-recent-kills/202060779
The latest rumored pick for Interior Secretary:
http://washingtonagnetwork.com/2016/10/31/mcmorris-rodgers-wolves-delisted-statewide/
It looks like the fight is on. From the Wall Street Journal, posted a couple hours ago:
“Ms. McMorris Rodgers, a senior member of the House of Representatives, if confirmed by the Senate, would lead Mr. Trump’s efforts to open up federal lands and waters to fossil-fuel development and reverse environmental policies the Obama administration has pursued over the past eight years.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-expected-to-pick-rep-cathy-mcmorris-rodgers-to-run-interior-1481298518
Western Watersheds has a news release on this. See The Wildlife News. 12/9/16
Here we go – drill baby drill.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/trump-advisers-aim-to-privatize-oil-rich-indian-reservations/article_a93dbe81-ccdc-5b79-be96-c1c10068be14.html
More exploitation. The DAPL folks ain’t seen nuthin’ yet!
“Legislation would overturn lynx decision”
“A court ruling on how to manage Canadian lynx under the Endangered Species Act could be overturned by legislation released by all three members of Montana’s congressional delegation on Friday.”
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/legislation-would-overturn-lynx-decision/article_e7a002bc-f214-5fa5-96dd-28f330047326.html
I’m announcing a new Facebook blog titled John Glowa’s Maine Fish and Wildlife News. http://www.facebook.com/johnglowamainefishandwildlifenews/
Its purpose is to educate the people of Maine about what is truly happening regarding fish and wildlife management in order that they may be better informed and, hopefully, take action to take back their fish and wildlife resources. Here in Maine, fish and wildlife management is controlled by a cabal of a few individuals who have virtually complete control over a very rigged system of government. Aside from the judicial system, the only real means that the public has for affecting fish and wildlife management is the citizen’s initiative referendum process. When the citizens initiate a wildlife-related referendum, this cabal of special interests and corrupt state officials colludes to misinform and frighten the public into voting against any meaningful fish and wildlife management reform. These radical extremists have been trying every way possible to gain virtually complete control over the “system” by taking away the peoples’ right to wildlife-related referenda, thus far without success. Maine’s Dept. of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife enjoys considerable support among Maine people. That is because their message and the message told by most of the press is supportive and fails to tell the real story. My intention is to tell the real story. I would like to see every state have a similar blog to help to create the much needed paradigm shift in state fish and wildlife agencies away from making killing the number one priority and towards making ecosystem health and the resource the number one priorities.
Fantastic. I’ve always wondered if we had a similar situation out here as in the West.
“Maine’s fish and wildlife resources are controlled by a small group of radical extremists who receive sympathetic treatment by Maine’s press. On this page, I will endeavor to give the people of Maine the truth about what is and isn’t happening with regard to the public’s fish and wildlife resources. Much of what you read here, you will not see in the press. One of the first truths is that nonconsumptive users, aka “wildlife watchers” spend (approx. $800 million) four times the amount that hunters (approx. $200 million) spend here in Maine annually. See page 4 at http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/fhw11-me.pdf
While numbers of consumptive users decline, numbers of wildlife watchers and their economic benefit continue to grow. Another truth is that nearly nine of every ten Mainers do not hunt”
Good luck with your endeavor John!
“We” non-consumptive users (IMHO) continue to grow (and out spend consumptive users) simply because killing is not a priority nor, a necessity. Recognizing, acknowledging & the ability to appreciate other species we share the planet with, is.
“killing is not a priority nor, a necessity” as long as you are OK with ghastly looking deer destroying the land, and being so over-run with raccoon that no ground nesting birds exist. You may also get to watch tens of thousands of deer get winter killed, but that’s better than letting hunters eat a few, eh?
“as long as you are OK with ghastly looking deer destroying the land, and being so over-run with raccoon that no ground nesting birds exist”
It would seem if “ghastly looking deer”are destroying the land and I’m guessing you’re referring to crop land and manicured lawns? Is it the state’s “management” of deer populations the problem or could it be something bigger like the wholesale slaughter of natural predators like coyotes & bobcats?
http://easterncoyotetrapping.com/
http://mainepublic.org/post/council-extends-hunting-trapping-season-bobcat-beaver#stream/0
“Feds capture and euthanize coyote family of five living near LaGuardia Airport”
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/feds-euthanize-coyote-family-living-laguardia-aiport-article-1.2864738
Fact is, we humans have created (and continue to do so) the perfect environment for species WE originally displaced.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/05/coyotes-new-york-city.html
Heartless and cruel. This is why I could never stand living in a big city – aside from the infernal noise, nature and wildlife have become aberrations there, unless under tightly human-controlled circumstances.
A nice place to visit, but I wouldn’t wantto live there. Yuck!
I have decided nowadays to travel by train. Airports are a overcrowded mess that I can do without, and I have the time now to travel by train and enjoy. Except going across the pond or something like that, and then it’s trains there too.
This article from the Atlantic gave me a chuckle:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/flying-travel-frustration-airlines-customer-service/404986/
“Rescuers tending to a feral cat colony at the nearby Bowery Bay Wastewater Treatment Plant in Astoria were recently barred from bringing food because officials thought it would attract the coyotes. They claimed the cats were starving.”
Aha. I think I’m getting the picture
http://fox2now.com/2016/12/10/new-webcam-shows-live-views-of-illinois-bison-herd/
A lot of blank images over the past few days Jeff E, they must be camera shy. 🙂
http://www.earthcam.com/usa/illinois/wilmington/midewin/?cam=bison
In case there was still any doubt that our country is an oligarchy:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/rex-tillerson-exxon-mobil-expected-be-named-trump-s-secretary-n694371
“Public relations, marketing, advertising – these are generally the only lines of communication between corporations and the average citizen; you see companies put their best foot forward. But ExxonMobil has given up the ghost; after the ExxonValdez crash, and the accompanying drop in the company’s reputation from the sixth-most-admired in America to the 110th, Raymond decided that there was no sense in putting a coat of paint on it. He believed “all oil companies saw their reputations rise and fall mainly as a function of whether retail gas prices were high or low.” So why waste the time and money?”
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/opinion/2012/07/30/exxonmobil-profits-above-all-else
https://www.outsideonline.com/1869221/most-well-behaved-grizz-youve-ever-seen
And other interesting videos
Moose poached in Washington
http://www.wallowa.com/local_news/20161211/moose-poached-in-wallowa-county
Believe it was Wallowa county, Oregon, Immer.
Be interesting to see what kind of comments (if any) are posted about this poached moose. Poached wolves seem to draw a different crowd:
http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/09/poaching_considered_as_factor.html
Had an interesting encounter with a young moose yesterday while checking on a place I care take in the winter. The moose got into a pole fence corral and then couldn’t get out (based on a well worn path in the snow, around the inside perimeter)
Went to open the gate and it seemed delighted at first to see another being, walked towards me, ears forward and then suddenly realized….OMG! its a human.
It raced to the opposite side of the fence line, scrambled over the pole fence, took a face plant, recovered and then made a bee line for the willows by the creek.
Happy ending 🙂
Had a deer fawn that wandered into a mostly fenced garden. I pulled up to the cabin and this thing, in a panic, was launching itself into fencing. It took a while to husband it toward the opening. The exhausted fawn looked back with an expression, “is that all it took to get out”?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/galleries/The-worlds-most-beautiful-mountains/
Thank you, Jeff E,for posting. Love the scenery.
Yes, I second Rita, thank you. I used to have a t-shirt that read “Life’s a mountain, not a beach.” I’d add K2 to that list and make it an even 20…but then I’d also want to add my many personal favorites, climbed and unclimbed!
Well here’s some good news:
http://k2radio.com/wyoming-sells-land-within-park-to-feds/
I agree, thanks JEFFE. I always thought I was an ocean person (I still am) until I went to the Rockies, and was completed bowled over.
This is too outlandish to even consider…yet this whole nightmare of Trump’s so-called election win is beyond the outer limits of credibility. Ryan Zinke, Montana’s lone congressman and a Trump yes-man from the get-go, has apparently interviewed for a cabinet position…including Interior sec’y! From the article:
“Zinke and Trump discussed sportsmen’s rights, land use and ownership, Native American affairs, national security and veterans affairs.” …
“Rep. Cathy McMorris Rogers, R-Wash., was also on Trump’s schedule for another interview Monday. She is believed to be the leading candidate for the Interior position. Rep. Raul Labrador, R-Idaho, was also set to interview today.”
Sportsmen’s rights! As if they don’t have plenty of “rights” already! As if that’s what leading Interior is all about–that, and drilling/mining/plundering.
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/zinke-and-trump-have-positive-meeting-in-new-york-monday/article_ef790237-64af-5626-b5fb-a7cd05b409bc.html
Now it’s Rick Perry for Energy Secretary. I guess the theme is ‘oil, oil and more oil’. I’m just waiting now for the coup de grace of who the Interior Secretary will be:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rick-perry-ex-governor-of-texas-is-trump%E2%80%99s-pick-as-energy-secretary/ar-AAlw5rK?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Media reports: Zinke is Trump’s pick for Interior
http://missoulian.com/news/government-and-politics/media-reports-zinke-is-trump-s-pick-for-interior-secretary/article_8a6b590f-6f50-591e-932d-f22cfde59817.html
“This summer, he quit his post as a member of the GOP platform-writing committee after the group included language that would have transferred federal land ownership to the states.”
“During his time in Congress, Zinke has established a 3 percent voting score with the League of Conservation Voters. But he has broken ranks with the panel’s GOP majority on occasion, opposing a measure by Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska) that would have allowed each state to buy up to 2 million in U.S. Forest Service land to boost timber production. He has also pushed for full funding of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, a high priority for outdoors groups.”
Well, at least he’s got that going for him, but he seems to be another very pro-energy development appointee – I have heard the name, but what does everyone think?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/13/trump-taps-montana-congressman-ryan-zinke-as-interior-secretary/?utm_term=.5b4c5e40f8b8
“I think we have lost our way in a lot of ways. We can mine and drill and still be responsible stewards of the land we cherish.
*****Coal, oil and natural gas are going to be part of our energy picture for a long time and there is no doubt when it comes to energy that Montana has an important role to play.”
Translation – Drill Baby, Drill.
http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/12/13/report-zinke-tapped-interior-secretary/
He wanted to run for Tester’s senate seat, and Tester is a strong proponent of public lands and the LWCF…and that support plays well in Montana. Tester would have been able to pummel Zinke with anything less than full support during an election bid. That’s one way to look at it.
That’s where I heard his name, associated with Jon Tester. I wonder if this man is anti-wolf too – Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t seem to matter. As they say,
wolf hatinghunting is a way of life in Montana!I thought of this today – does anyone know what the status of ESA protections for the wolverine is? They were denied protection under the current administration due to scientific ‘ambiguities’ about climate change (!) affecting them.
They were ‘prodded’ into doing something by a judge, but I don’t know if anything was done? I doubt that they’ll get any protections under the Trump’s administration. These poor animals only number 300 or less!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/science/wolverines-endangered-fish-and-wildlife-service-montana.html?_r=0
‘
A court ruling re-opened a status review on the issue & public comment re-opened this past Oct. and ended mid-Nov. No further news since then.
https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/pressrel/2016/10172016_Court-Ruling-Reopens-Comment-Period-on-North-American-Wolverine-Proposed-Listing-Rule.php
“I wonder if this man is anti-wolf too”
“During Zinke’s brief time in office, the freshman congressman has not been a friend to endangered species or the Endangered Species Act. In 2016 Zinke led efforts to strip federal protections for critically endangered Mexican gray wolves even though a mere 97 remain in the wild.”
http://nywolf.org/
http://mexicanwolves.org/index.php/news/1466/51/Urgent-Please-act-to-stop-lobo-extinction-bill-today/d,News2
CBD take on the Zinke nomination:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2016/ryan-zinke-12-13-2016.php
Apologies if this was already posted–I just first saw it.
“Utah’s Bishop asks Trump to consider revoking national monuments” (Bears Ears are pictured)
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4675910-155/utahs-bishop-asks-trump-to-consider
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/montana/wolf-shot-killed-near-helena/211204906
BIG difference between “believed to be a threat” and “was a threat”
And lets do all gather round, for that photo op with the big, bad, dead wolf, after chasing it down?
http://kokomoperspective.com/lifestyles/outdoors/wolf-spotted-near-cattle-killed-in-helena-valley/article_151c8d0d-9f83-5e6f-8475-227a8d2cce5d.html
This should make everyone’s day a little bit better. My two favorite things: Cats and cold running water.
From Olympic National Park. Who knew we had ‘fishing cats’ in America?
https://www.facebook.com/OlympicNPS/videos/1187796174607851/?pnref=story
🙂 I meant to comment on the good news about the Florida panther who crossed the river and expanded her habitat too! It was posted awhile ago.
I read about that and it made me feel a little more hopeful. I was glad to hear it.
This meeting of the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee ended at noon today in Missoula. No word yet on if a delisting order was signed…
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2016/dec/14/grizzly-bear-experts-ponder-delisting-missoula-meeting/
Yesterday they dropped bear spray recommendations:
http://missoulian.com/news/local/grizzly-managers-drop–second-bear-spray-rule/article_33bb0b84-c336-53d8-b4d0-2a9a58723ec9.html
Who needs bear spray when you’ve got a gun, I suppose. No word on how that will affect the population in inevitable conflicts. Thanks for the info on the wolverine, btw.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/wolf_hunt_michigan_sb_1187.html
There are many similar articles letting us know that the MI legislation has passed, yet again, a bill that would let the DNR conduct wolf hunts. The vote may have been exactly partisan. There is some correlation with Republicans having majorities in their districts who want wolf hunting (more rural), but I don’t think it’s that perfect. I do expect our Governor to sign, and I do expect wolves to be hunted some day, as our DNR tries to be friendly to the hunters who badmouth them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/see-the-entries-for-national-geographics-nature-photographer-of-the-year-contest/2016/10/07/87a13fe6-8020-11e6-8327-f141a7beb626_gallery.html
“Grizzly strategy clears committee, but delisting decision remains unfinished”
Excerpts: “Plans to manage Yellowstone-area grizzly bears when they lose federal Endangered Species Act protection got approved on Wednesday, but removing the bears from the list remains months away.” … “IGBC members also voted unanimously to ask FWS to accelerate work on delisting grizzlies in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem.”
http://missoulian.com/news/local/grizzly-strategy-clears-committee-but-delisting-decision-remains-unfinished/article_ecea3b43-14cd-5f9e-acfc-cdba806f1a40.html
Interesting possibility on Isle Royals
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/12/16/isle-royale-may-add-20-30-wolves-due-extinction-threat/95514152/
If it goes to fruition, better late than never.
Draft EIS for Isle Royale Wolf repopulation alternatives:
Dear Friend of Isle Royale National Park:
I am sending this email to update you on the draft Environmental Impact Statement to Address the Presence of Wolves on Isle Royale (draft EIS). The draft EIS is now available at http://parkplanning.nps.gov/isrowolves.
The draft EIS describes how park resources would be affected by the no action alternative and three action alternatives that involve the introduction of wolves to the island. The draft EIS analyzes the impacts of each alternative on the island ecosystem, wilderness character, wolves and moose of Isle Royale.
Because your feedback is essential to the development of the EIS, we are asking for your thoughtful review and comments during the 90-day comment period, which concludes on March 15, 2017. For your comments to be considered during this review period, you must submit them online at http://parkplanning.nps.gov/Isrowolves or hand deliver or mail them to the park at the following address, Superintendent Phyllis Green, Isle Royale National Park, ISRO Wolves, 800 East Lakeshore Drive, Houghton, Michigan 49931-1896.
The NPS will hold public meetings and webinars to discuss the draft EIS in February in the Houghton area as well as other sites in Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Michigan.
Great little video of bobcat going after salmon on the Hoh Rainforest. In my experience, very few people see bobcats in the wild, by the way.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/watch-bobcat-catches-big-salmon-in-hoh-rainforest-stream/
This has got to be the coolest-looking bear I’ve ever seen! Excerpt:
“The bear charging out of the cover photo of Douglas Chadwick’s new book, “Tracking Gobi Grizzlies” looks like Paddington gone feral on Mars.
“The ground it gallops across doesn’t support a blade of grass. The bear’s claws stick out big as pencils, seen from the stubby eraser end rather than the sharp tip. And the fur: frizzy as a Steiff teddy bear run through the dryer on high for an hour.”
http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/recreation/rarest-bear-montanan-tracks-gobi-grizzlies/article_81fe1cde-7987-56be-acde-f32ede91fbe7.html
OMG. Big ag factory farmers would love to see this…Otter as ag sec’y.
“Animal welfare advocates no fans of Otter”
Excerpts:
“It doesn’t bode well to have someone who doesn’t want transparency in the way America’s food is raised,” said Chris Green, the executive director of Harvard’s Animal Law and Policy program.
“He’s going to sacrifice the free speech of citizens for business protections whenever he can,” said Justin Marceau, an attorney for the Animal Legal Defense Fund. “What I’m really afraid of is Trump trying to overturn free speech cases, and who can you find to obstruct free speech in the agriculture realm more than Butch Otter? It’s remarkable.”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/12/animal-welfare-advocates-butch-otter-232762
My first thought as well – AgGag. I really can’t believe it.
Yet another scary example of Trump, appointing “a fox to guard the henhouse”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/12/pointy-nosed-blue-chimaeras-ghost-sharks/
Bounty Hunters
The Clandestine War on Wolves
https://harpers.org/archive/2017/01/bounty-hunters/
A good article on the bleak future of polar bears. It’s seems we have nothing but dire news.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/science/polar-bears-global-warming.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Regressive thinking in Colorado!
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/colorado-wildlife-predator-control-experiment-kill-lions-bears/
Yes, I read this. A nine-year study, that will tell us what we already know! Meanwhile there was a(nother) mule deer poaching in Nevada, but how will we address the needless waste of life by ourselves, not mountain lions and bears?
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2016/12/5000-reward-offered-after.html
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/13/wickstrom-moose-populations-are-thriving-in-colorado/
“Moose projects like the one on the Flattops are funded using sportsmen’s dollars plus money from moose funds, which come from the annual raffle of moose licenses by Safari Club International”
Interesting how these “success” stories always boil down to more opportunities to kill another variety of wildlife.
http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2009/jan/12/dow_officers_introduce_moose_northwest_colorado/
So what’s next for Colorado, and what probably amounts to even more trophy hunting opportunities?
http://www.denverpost.com/2015/01/23/bringing-the-wests-wild-bison-back-from-the-brink/
“Interesting how these “success” stories always boil down to more opportunities to kill another variety of wildlife.”
Isn’t that cool that one of your success stories ends up in the very same manner…where they have to kill another variety of wildlife.
http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/waite/environmental/Minnesota_Wolf_Damage_Management.pdf
As MN deer numbers increased, so did wolf numbers and expansion. Keep deer numbers down and wolf problems will not disappear, but should abate.
https://www.minnpost.com/data/2015/11/how-many-deer-do-minnesota-hunters-harvest-each-year-and-where-do-they-find-them
Shows deer numbers were higher (in regard to harvest) up until your 2010 wolf depredation data.
does this troll mat-ters remind you of reality22?
He has very little in regard to wolf information/news. So he comes here under different guises, like a mutating virus.
Immer, I’m not going to argue with you on what caused the depredations and habituation of wolves in that band of counties from (Lake of the woods) CO to Pine CO. (page 6) BUT, Are you trying to tell me that wolves would not have moved into that band if not for deer? No matter how you look at, Nancy and Jon’s hated hunters and hunting have nothing to do with the wolves on page 17.
Where to start Mat-ters.
How about page 16 – when most complaints (depredations?) occur, right around or soon after, calving season?
Or page 20 – 70-80% mixed ag & forested (damage sites)
Or page 24 – disposal of dead livestock?
Less than 2% of farmers suffer damages from wolves in Minnesota according to the latest figures.
I suspect many are hobby farmers (less than 100 head of cattle – average – around 30 head) How many complaints are happening over and over on the same farms?
Or page 25 – deer feeding (baiting) on or close to farms?
“Complicating the issue of baiting for some Minnesota hunters is the fact that agricultural crops, including “wildlife food plantings,” are not considered bait. Those so-called “food plots,” aimed at attracting deer during the fall when other food sources are scarce, are commonly *advertised* in hunting publications. Many hunters don’t see a clear ethical or practical distinction between baiting with food products and attracting deer with food plots”
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/outdoors/hunting/3882429-deer-baiting-problem-persists-minnesota-hunt
Mat-ters,
Nancy’s response covers most of the points I wanted to address. Wolves have become a socio-political baton in MN.
One must remember that central to NE MN was never good deer habitat, and logging and mining opened it up to good to marginal habitat. As Nancy said, food plots and deer feeding are big up here. Bring deer in, and wolves follow. That’s a pretty simple cause and effect.
On my trail network, the effect of deer is already obvious, as osier, young ash, aspen, and maple have already had growth leaders nibbled off, which means another round of reflagging white pine. I’ve stopped feeding birds because the deer come in and within a matter of minutes, the sunflower seeds are gone. The map you provided of wolf depredation/complaint, as Nancy correctly pointed out, and I provided to you a month or so ago, shows where the great concentration of complaints occur, on the forest/mixed ag interphase.
The wolf lives by its legs and mouth. It’s just doing what a wolf does. The MN wolf population has expanded since being put on the ESL. That is a success. The MN DNR screwed up big time with that first hunt, and I have pointed out to you twice, Simon’s email. It had little to do with managing wolf numbers where problems existed, but primarily kowtowing to the hunting lobby.
Where I live, not far from a deer migration zone, many, if not most of negative interactions with wolves would cease if people quit feeding deer, which pointed out in your posting.
The winter of 2012/13, we received in mid April 2013, a twenty inch snowstorm, which proved devestating to deer. I had a yearling fawn walk right up to my 95 pound German Shepherd. The deer eventually starved to death. I’m sure that was not the lone occurrence up here.
The MDHA wants more deer, yep, theirs big money there as the hunting industry continues to Nascarize. I enjoy venison, am not a very good hunter, and assist my friend who is a very good hunter, during the butchering process. Let’s also say a lot of feeding, food plots, and Lucky Buck contribute to some of that success. Deer hunting and deer survival are tough up here, the more deer that survive, the more wolves survive.
Immer, Your blaming deer hypothesis falls apart and on deaf ears when you come to find out deer numbers in the band of CO from Lake of the Woods to Pine Co are at lows not seen since the 1970’s / 80/s. Don’t try to give deer numbers for the whole state of MN Immer. You know full well most of those CO in that band are not even at social carrying capacity let alone Biological carrying capacity! I’m sure the MDHA is sick and tired of those that want to muddy the waters pointing at numbers that represent other parts of the state when you know full well what they are talking about.
The number of dead wolves (that are a direct result of Nancy and Jon wolf management strategies). continued to climb as a result of wolves moving into less favorable habitat DEER OR NO DEER.
“That is a success” That is not a success if they move into an area where they are almost assured to cause issues, as they have in the band of CO from lake of the woods to pine CO .
Your demonization of Simon also falls apart when you look at how the hunt was set up, especially the zoning to focus on the issue ….. of wolves moving into poorer habitat.
Being that you agreed with and didn’t correct any of Nancy’s points I’ll lecture you both on trying passing off CONFIRMED depredation as being even close to depredation. “Less than 2% of farmers suffer damages from wolves in Minnesota according to the latest figures” YOU know full well that 2% goes quickly to 10% with an only one in six or seven confirmed ratio…… nothing pisses a farmer off more than trying to pass that 2% off as representing the truth (other than posting pictures of 800 to 1500 lb dead livestock that need to be buried or staged to be buried via large equipment on a time scale demanded by the likes of Nancy) . Another one that makes the farmer fume is “How many complaints are happening over and over on the same farms?” As with out west the ranch at the head of a drainage WILL ALMOST always be the first to experience issues…. I’m sure some farms in MN will be worse than others only because of the lay out of the land. BUT, if Nancy has some disnified notion that removing that farmer is the answer little does see know the next farmer down the drainage or next to the MN farmer will have the same issues. What would make her and others pretty sinister is if they know this fact ….and don’t care. Good environmental groups like RMEF are always looking for properties to purchase that minimize this conflict. Other groups (and Nancy) use them as a rallying tool for “donate now” maximization.
I have to chuckle every time you turn to trees as a talking point…. I understand forestry Immer! I’m a land owner, I’d bet the farm that my tree spade and my back has hand planted more trees than you. The acre plot that I fence off on one of my properties tells me what the 50 deer per square mile does. BUT, ya know what Immer, trees are growing on both sides of that fence! The swamp white oak in the SE corner of the property are doing GREAT and even greater on the neighbor’s property. Most of my Pine and spruce are above the deer now…… ash, elm AND MAPLE are filling in naturally. It takes time BUT they do make it even with a species like deer eating the lateral buds. Even more interesting is what has happened inside the fence….red brush has drowned out a third of the white cedar planted there. You can start a lecture and others can chime in on cedar BUT I’m sure we all know that even at one deer per square mile white cedar will suffer.
My theories on cedar are probably on the mark.. …. Cedar grows well around water….MAN lived for centuries of centuries on water ways …. killing deer around water was the way of days gone by …. Just as cedar now grows well in the ditches near roads but not in the deep woods.
Immer, success for wolves in MN would have been keeping them at the levels in the MN wolf management plan via HUNTING which would have kept them from moving into poorer and poorer habitat. The Nancy, Jon and Judge Howel wolf plan results in dead wolves of which THEY must take responsibility for and will continue to result in even more dead wolves as the continue to move into poorer habitat…no matter how many deer, or flaggies are put on fences, or if dead cattle are buried. Those dead wolves are not the hunters fault….they are not the private land owners fault…..they are not the deer’s fault. Those dead wolves are the result of wolves moving into poorer habitat….which is the result of those that abused the ESA.
Hey Reality,
You don’t live up here. You splatter talking points in your typical ADHD fashion. Why don’t you pick one or two topics and let’s hash it out.
1. Many more deer up here would be a catastrophe for deer, in particular if people would quit feeding them. I’m not talking about the entire state, yet, known that deer are the main prey of wolves in MN, wherever wolves are found, with the exception of areas of moose economy. And even those areas were wolf populations were bolstered by deer and beaver.
The paper everyone likes to quote, I would submit that most who cite this paper have never read farther than the abstract:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1291&context=usgsnpwrc
The part they never read:
Wolf-population density in the wolf-survey area was able to remain high even as moose numbers were declining because throughout much of the wolf-survey area as well as the larger moose-survey area, deer and beavers continued to be available, probably subsidizing wolves while they also preyed on declining numbers of moose. Some wolf packs even occupied narrow territories stretching as far as 42 km from the northeastern part of the wolf-survey area where few deer live in summer and none in winter to the southwestern part where deer live in summer and congregate in winter (L. D. Mech and S. Barber-Meyer, U.S. Geological Survey, unpublished data).
Also, during the second of our two severe winters, 2013/14, when emergency deer feeding took place, moose zones were omitted from the supplemental program.
Was that to suppress there numbers to also decrease wolf numbers, and/or try and do something about the spread on brain worm and liver flukes to moose, from deer.
2. Cedar. All one has to do is motor/canoe around lakes up here that have cedar by there shores. The browse line is very symmetrical, that is, as high as deer can reach. I have a cedar swamp quite near my place. All mature cedar, few to none young cedar.
3. You mention swamp oak. We have no oak up here, other than some exceedingly rare scraggly red oak a couple feet high, always on a southern facing slope.
4. The Oakleaf study, though applicable in areas out west with large grazing allotments is not applicable in smaller plots as found in MN.
http://www.pinedaleonline.com/wolf/pdf/Oakleafpaper.pdf
All you have to do is follow the birds up here, and you can find the dead stuff.
5. Simon’s email. I’m not demonizing Simon. It was his email. I had no input in what he said.
6. Wolf hunting zones, and the three MN wolf seasons. My question continues to be, why 3 large zones, that included large areas where wolves were not in conflict with people? Why we’re smaller zones not established, similar but not identical to deer zones, with concentration in areas of wolf and livestock concerns?
7. Errors and the donate button: The Middleton study which you like to use, but only parts. When the study was first presented you made a disparaging comment that it was probably funded by the likes of Ralph Maughan. When in reality, pun intended, it was funded by outfits like Safari Club, to which you had admitted you were a dues (your donate button) paying member.
8. Other people. Jon is passionate. Counterbalances are required for the viral anti wolf folks. I hunt, and enjoy venison, yet I must ask myself at times, with so much land and resource devoted to the livestock industry, is hunting actually necessary? I know the argument exists that the meat is probably healthier (that in itself is a partial condemnation of the livestock industry), and with the price of beef, deer is a relatively inexpensive supplement to a family’s food budget.
9. Nancy provides well thought, organized arguments. She actually reads what people post, including cited sources.
That’s enough. If you’d like to continue the discussion, why not narrow it down a bit, organize your ideas, and leave other people out of it.
Immer, Yup, I’m the one with ADHD when you and Nancy were the ones rupturing all over the place with your talking points. Funny. BUT, even funnier is your double speak and avoidance of the expansion of wolves into habitat that gets poorer and poorer. You call it “success”! Judge Howell calls it mandatory……and the locals call it something that shouldn’t be printed here. The results of your success and Howells mandate is dead wolves ….and not just a few. Not one of yours OR Nancies arguments changes any of that. Those dead wolves are owned by YOU, Jon, Nancy, Judge Howell and the EAJA hungry groups abusing the ESA. Just as are the thousands of dead cougars killed in CA or Black bears in NJ.
Now that’s one topic Immer…. Try to stay on it ….its wolves moving into poorer habitat and the predicable resulting dead wolves that you and the crew can’t blame on the hunter or farmer or the pet owner or taxpayer for which you have saddle them with cleaning up your mess.
******************************************
Another stale argument of yours Immer “The part they never read:” I seem to understand how secondary prey works better than you Immer ….no skipping over anything. BUT; if anything here is a part you “never read” from that same article : “ The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources regulates a public harvest of wolves throughout the 70,000-km2 wolf range and has allowed annual quotas of 400 in 2012 and 220 in 2013. If current or future studies suggest that wolves contribute importantly to the moose population decline, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources could allocate a certain portion of its annual public-wolf-harvest quota to part of the moose range and compare moose mortality and numbers in that area with a similar experimental control area where wolves are not taken. If that experiment confirms the importance of wolves to the moose decline, we recommend that the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources allocate an increased portion of the wolf-harvest quota to the moose range until the moose population recovers.”
Note to self – avoid “rupturing” all over the place. Leads to confusion among the narrow minded.
mat-ters AKA reality22, you’ve been exposed troll. Leave this place.
Mat-ters, only a wolf hating nut job like you would claim we abuse the ESA. We use the ESA to protect the wildlife from wildlife killing cowards like you.
Jon, Lenin would be proud of Immers use of you. Please Jon, tell me how I hate wolves. Isn’t the topic about how Minnesota is killing wolves by the hundreds each year? How Jon, do I hate those wolves? Isn’t it a better case to say those that set those wolves up for failure are the real haters? Who is really responsible for those dead wolves which were….of all things TRAPPED? Could it be that your the real hater of wolves? I know thats a lot of questions Jon …. BUT the one I really want you to think about is, where is your model of how to treat wolves that live around people…where is your wolf utopia Jon?
Hey reality22, we know you’ve come here to stalk immer and spew your wolf hatred. Get lost little man. You are on the wrong website. Who is responsible for the dead wolves? You wolf hating scum are. Wolves were here long before people and we are haters of wolves? We will do everything we can to protect our wildlife from the hunters and trappers who are a cancer on our wildlife.
where is your model of how to treat wolves that live around people…
My model? My model is leave the wolves alone. There were on earth far longer than wildlife hating cretins like you reality22. Everything with you hunters is kill kill kill. You think killing solves the problem, it doesn’t. Stop worrying about wolves living around people and start worrying about your own species being overpopulated and making it much harder for wildlife to survive. You are one of the biggest wolf hating trolls on the internet. You find every wolf related article you can just to spew your hatred of wildlife. You suffer from a mental illness you troll.
Reality
It’s ironically interesting that many folks believe wolves should only be allowed in wilderness areas, but when they impact the “good” animals in those wilderness areas, the wolves need to be removed, thus an introduction for the two talking points.
I will address the wilderness and moose first.
One of the bonuses of living in close proximity to the IWC is having access to their resources, including hard copies of many papers such as this one, and presentations by Mech and his associates. The Mech paper we have been citing back and forth contains wolf data up until 2012, and moose data ending in 2013. As the surveys are usually made with snow as an aid to visually see these animals, though the paper does not make it clear, that this probably implies the last wolf count was from the Winter 2011/12, and the last moose count from the winter of 2012/13. The paper was received 2/12/14, accepted 7/7/14, and published 8/26/14. All these dates are important.
Mech was skeptical of the Lenarz 2009 study about warming conditions and moose decline. The Mech and Feinberg study showed a definite correlation between increased wolf numbers and decreasing moose numbers. Nobody, let me repeat that,
NOBODY, including me disputes this correlation. A presentation by Mech at the IWC, late early Autumn 2014 centered on this particular study. He had further wolf data, not included in the study, from the Winters 12/13 and 13/14, that demonstrated the wolf numbers were dropping. I believe those numbers were in the 70’s. Still, the cauldron was boiling in regard to the paper, with its findings popping up all over the place, even though the data was no longer current, which continues to this day. A section of the
Star Tribune published 11/1/14
http://www.startribune.com/are-wolves-to-blame-for-fewer-minnesota-moose/281197051/
Mech’s latest report says the northeast moose population was relatively unaffected by wolves from 1997 to about 2003 and that wolf numbers tended to parallel moose numbers. However, after the wolf population in his study area jumped 81 percent between 2000 and 2006 — from 44 animals to 81 — moose numbers began declining.
“We don’t know how far and wide that increase [in the wolf population] took place, but it did in our study area, and that area was adjacent to the moose study area,” Mech said. He said it’s reasonable to surmise the wolf population in the rest of the moose study area also was rising, rather than remaining stable, as it was elsewhere.
Moose are a prime food source for wolves in the northeast, so as the moose population declines, one would expect the wolf population to eventually fall, too. “That seems to be happening in our study area,” Mech said. The wolf population there increased until 2012, but he said it appears to have since declined.
Please read the last paragraph above.
The question never addressed is, why did the wolf population increase so dramatically?
The answer lies in the 1999 July BWCA blowdown followed by a significant sequence of mild winters, and a corresponding increase in deer numbers. The winter of 2008 brought an end to this sequence. Looking at MN DNR data for 2003 -2013 bears this out.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/deer/maps_stats_archive.html
With deer zone(s) just east of the moose zone having a high harvest of 5032 in 2003
Followed in succeeding years with: 4081; 4171; 4189; 4022; 3239; 2123; 1992; 1808; 1556
While in the moose zone beginning in 2003 with deer Harvests of: 250; 257; 245; 260; 325; 333; 129; 37; 37; 64.
The large corresponding drops in deer harvest figures 2009 with 2123 and 129 also correspond with when the moose population begins to get hit hard by Mech’s data.
There are deer in the moose zone, there are just fewer people deer hunting in that zone, plus deer hunting is labor intensive. Tree stands are the best bet, but you can’t put them just anywhere, and firing lanes must be cleared. Very few shots taken at more than 50/60 yards. This last little section is from just up here, not state wide.
Add brain worm and liver flukes brought in by deer, plus heavy winter tick loads and moose are in trouble.
Last, just out from the Timberjay. Since June, 5 of the 75 collared moose in the MN DNR study have died 6/10 wolf attack; August lactating cow with heavy parasite load hit by car; four days later, an undernourished four year old bull just tipped over, its liver heavily compromised by parasites; 9/25 healthy bull taken by tribal hunter; 10/25large bull euthanized due to severe leg infection.
With your visits here as Truth Be Told and OFN, I’ve provided similar if not identical information. I’m done as far as the moose go. When future wolf/moose data comes out, we’ll take it from there.
Inclosing on the moose topic. This was not originally deer territory up here, but moose and woodland caribou. The caribou were extirpated by hunting. Logging and mining, anthropogenic effects, opened the area to deer. Nature swings back and forth especially kind to deer after the 1999 blowdown, plus trying to manage deer by maintaining that “sweet spot” in the sigmoid growth curve has not been good for moose. As far as moose go, wolves are just a symptom of too many deer in the wrong place.
Let me add one more item in regard to deer/wolves/moose. I used to spend considerable time cross country skiing on lakes in the BWCA. As I mentioned in a prior post, follow the birds (ravens) or the tracks (wolves) and you find stuff out there in areas of moose economy, such as deer killed by wolves even in the deep of Winter. I’m looking up as I write, at a nice ten point buck skull, compliments of wolves from one of those ski jaunts. It’s not just online data, it’s actually being out there.
Immer, wow… A dissertation on secondary prey right after I just got done saying “I seem to understand how secondary prey works better than you Immer ….no skipping over anything.”
So. it sound like we are on the same page with what happened.
NOW, lets see if you can see through your prejudices and intolerance and tell everyone how a well implemented MN wolf plan by a good man like Mr Simon would have been extremely beneficial to the moose of MN. Please stress to them that the plan does not kill them all. Please stress to them that the plan is Natural and something that MAN has been doing for centuries. You can do it Immer …. I know you can.
Immer, wow… A dissertation on secondary prey right after I just got done saying “I seem to understand how secondary prey works better than you Immer ….no skipping over anything.”
So. it sound like we are on the same page with what happened.
Apparently not.
1 EditReply
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reality22 ImmerTreue
a year ago
Readers, lets be clear that the end of Immers last post where it says ” Killing wolves can’t answer the problem. More wolves
just move in. The primary prey, moose and deer must also be addressed, and man must leave the area alone, or the caribou
are gone.” is not from Emma Marris article but a bigoted view from someone that spends to much time on a radical anti-hunting hate site.
Immer, it’s sad that you couldn’t see through your prejudices and intolerance.
As you admitted, mother nature (good winters, bad winters, and blowdowns) played a role in your deer narrative. You’re also choosing to include and insinuate that human activity is ahead of those reasons (food plots & deer feeding etc) as to the increase in deer. YES “ you’re” We know its “YOU’RE” because you choose to include Mechs assessment that “moose population was relatively unaffected by wolves from 1997 to about 2003 and that wolf numbers tended to parallel moose numbers” One thing fairly constant from the 80’s on is that people have been doing food plots and deer feeding. Heck, one of the management styles in Wisconsin Managed forest laws (which dates back to the 1970’s) is for the betterment of wildlife! It (food plots and feeding) has been more of a constant Immer and I know you know it. We both know there is another variable that is sacrilege to talk about here! You’re a phony to point the finger at deer/people and completely ignore or coddle what your “success”ful unprecedented protections of predators has done to the moose since 2003.
Immer I suspected that the early 1990s were also a deer mecca in northern MN just as they were here in WI. This article talks about that and confirms such. http://www.startribune.com/150-years-of-minnesota-deer-hunting/107011473/ Your narrative loses steam when you find out that moose numbers didn’t fall off the face of the earth back then. You may want to enlist the help of John Vucetich find a wolf science antidote, a place to point fingers. Just say’n….
The overwhelming evidence here on this thread and elsewhere points to a common theme that hunters, trappers and true outdoorsman do care about all wildlife. When you look deep into the heart of the recent suffering of the MN moose…. you can certainly find someone to blame and it’s not them.
reality,
Get caught in a boastful prevarication, then follow your usual agenda: change the subject; ignore what has been written and provided for you; drag other people’s names into the fray that have nothing to do with the discussion.
A million bucks will get you a hunting trip with the Trump sons…
Excerpt: “Our sources say “Opening Day” is being thrown to thank the hunting, shooting and fishing communities for their support. It’s something mainstream media didn’t cover, but Donald Trump Jr. and others spent a lot of time in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Iowa … all states with a huge population of hunters, fishermen and gun enthusiasts.”
RE: this website…lots of sleazy pics around the edges, so perhaps a grain of salt is called for?
http://www.tmz.com/2016/12/16/donald-trump-inauguration-party/
Also: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612668/-Hunt-with-the-Trumps-for-1-million-First-day-in-office-fundraiser-features-a-thirst-for-blood
Excerpt: “Anyone who thinks Trump is going to have an open mind about the environment or wildlife needs to stop clinging to that hope.
“The message is loud and clear. The Trumps are going out of their way to anger conservationists and environmentalists.”
The whole thing–the million dollar hunt, the Interior pick–is sickening and bodes ill for animals and their allies (and the ESA). Just scroll thru the Dallas Safari Club’s FB posts! https://www.facebook.com/DallasSafariClub/
And then there’s this: “How Trump’s son’s passion for hunting is shaping search for Interior secretary”:
“The big joke at Christmas this year was that the only job in government that I would want is with the Department of Interior,” Trump Jr. told Wide Open Spaces. “I understand these issues. It’s something I’m passionate about. I will be the very loud voice about these issues in my father’s ear. No one gets it more than us.”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/09/politics/donald-trump-jr-siblings-hunting-interior-secretary/index.html
Kind of grainy but the big boys (who didn’t get shot during hunting season) are starting to show up for the annual handouts at the refuge:
http://www.seejh.com/webcams/jacksonhole/jackson/elk-refuge/
Beautiful. I remember fondly the first time I ever saw a big herd of elk. Gorgeous.
All this discussion about wilderness gets me thinking. It is very wise advice for people to talk and make noise on trails. Their voices do carry. It’s also good to be able to rely on your senses out in wilderness, because sensory input gets drowned out by the noise of modern life. Wilderness is restorative.
The latest name in Trump’s line-up for Ag Sec’y
http://fortune.com/2016/12/21/donald-trump-cabinet-agriculture-susan-combs/
From CNN: A nicely-done slide show on the 6th mass extinction and its causes:
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2016/12/specials/vanishing/
That was great, Kathleen. Not great what we’re facing, but a fantastic presentation. I’m glad you shared this one.
Governor of MI signs the wolf hunt bill.
HSUS press release: http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2016/12/gov-snyder-signs-wolf-hunt-bill-122216.html. That is not an endorsement.
Local rag: http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/wolf_hunting_bill_signed_into.html
Casperson and his cronies committed treason
They work for the voters not the other way around
This overturn of a referendum is a sign of the disease overtaking American politics
Derision of science
Ignoring constituents snd their wishes
Special interst money and fear mongering driving politics
And innocence lost
It’s all but a fine deal that these sorry Vltava bastards will get their wish
Wolves are going to be one of the first sacrificial lambs
I’m sick to death of this trunponian era
They fight dirty with lies and corruption as currency
If two referendums
A federal court ruling
And a majority vote can’t Safeguard wolves
What can?
I’m sick with grief
No one should be shocked by this. The right wingers are doing this in other states as well.In North Carolina, a democrat won the Governor’s race in November and the right wingers in the N.C. legislature have passed bills limiting his powers when he takes office Jan 2017. The sickening thing is the republican (pat mccrory) the democrat beat in November is the one who signed these bills limiting the democrat’s powers into law. The republicans love giving the middle finger to the people.
and the righties put an appropriation in the bill too. Scum they are.
Same old crap:
“Anna Heaton is a spokesperson for the governor. She says his decision to sign the bill was based wasn’t about supporting wolf hunting. Rather, it was about science.
“There are legitimate instances of danger to humans and danger to livestock,” Heaton said. “This was something that he took into consideration that okay this is an actual problem and the natural resources commission needs to be able to regulate it.”
The law contains a small appropriation to fight Asian carp and other aquatic invasive species – which will make it immune to a referendum vote.”
http://michiganradio.org/post/if-wolves-are-removed-endangered-species-list-hunting-them-will-be-legal-michigan
I truly cannot believe that MI stat government has nothing better to concern themselves with. Why do the people put up with them? It’s a special kind of deviousness.
“science” should not be more important than the voters. They use bogus science to justify the need to killing wildlife.
That’s just it – there is no ‘science’. It’s just a word these people are hiding behind so that they can fool the public, who may not follow these types of things closely, or care at all.
The ‘science’ is saying otherwise about hunting wolves, and wolves’ role in the ecosystem.
For those farmers and ranchers who may be affected by predation of livestock, remedy already exists. A disorganized and sloppy hunt season is not needed to address this, and just screws everything up, as humans do.
Rork, I read some of the comments on the links you posted. Some don’t even feel that a human needs to yield to an animal in the road, they are so high and mightily entitled. What a world we are turning into.
And let us not forget who it was who delisted wolves in the first place, and why! So now we have the damage that was done for the last eight years (although I appreciate the end of term monument creation), and what may come with Trump’s crew. Let’s not let that get lost in the presidential shuffle.
I also don’t think that interfering with the people’s right to referendum is constitutional. Back to court, I guess.
Merry Christmas to all who enjoy the dialogue, links, and debate, here on the Wildlife News.
Wish I could also say “and a Happy New Year to you and yours!” But that wish, is unfortunately going to hang in the balance, given the line up in store to “run” the country, come January 20th:
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/2016/dec/commentary-fiends-of-the-earth
Merry Christmas to you also, Nancy! We’ll see what the New Year holds for us, I’m hopeful.
Merry Christmas and warm wishes to all.
nice job by these folks….
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5259714755001/?#sp=show-clips
Yep and speaking of eagles, the Decorah Webcam is up and running. The female was on the nest yesterday and the corn stalks are a new addition since then. Time to get started on a new batch of babies 🙂
http://biggeekdad.com/2011/03/decorah-eagles-webcam/
Seriously…a chemically-euthanized deer? (why?) is dumped where the carcass is accessible to scavengers??? This prompted me to look for the backstory: http://wavy.com/2016/12/20/bald-eagle-re-enters-wild-after-poisoning/
Since it was highway workers who improperly dumped the carcass, perhaps the deer was hit by a car and euthanized by a vet. What an awful story with a positive outcome, though one poisoned eagle is still recovering. Yes, indeed, awesome job by the rehabbers.
Merry Christmas you wildlife and wild place lovers!
As for a happy New Year, I look forward to the things I can control like driving less in my fuel efficiency vehicle, buying organic, supporting NGO’s that work to retire grazing allotments and buying products from predator friendly ranches among other things.
Having worked 37 years for the BLM, I have seen over six different administrations come and go and except for the Clinton administration which worked to change forest management in the Pacific NW, there was little difference in forest management practices. Personally time is the most important factor in my life so I don’t waste it on politics. Politicians can change laws but they can’t change my respect for nature. It’s the average American that runs this country, not an “R” or “D” and our desire to excel as a people. OK, enough of that, it’s time for a hike!
A hike sounds like fun Gary but not with 16 inches of snow on the ground and no snowshoes!
Merry Christmas and Happy Howlidays to all!
http://nature365.tv/november-23-2016/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/25/wolves-gates-paris-super-predator-pursues-spectacular-comeback/
R.I.P George. Yet another voice headed to Rock N Roll Heaven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/26/506998666/after-george-michaels-death-stories-emerge-of-his-quiet-generosity
More bad news from planet earth on us humans pushing a species toward extinction.
At the rate of their population decline isn’t a endangered status more accurate?
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38415906
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/12/cheetah-populations-crash-as-fastest-animal-disappears-from-91-of-its-range/
6 billion plus humans where one billion would be too many
7000 cheetas
whats wrong with this equation?
“Montana State Sen. Mike Phillips has been a part of efforts across the country to restore populations of wolves. He was recently involved in their reintroduction to Yellowstone National Park, and is now launching the Rocky Mountain Wolf Project, with a goal of bringing the apex predators back to Colorado.”
http://aspenpublicradio.org/post/wolves-colorado-not-devil-incarnate#stream/0
Well that’s certainly fantastic news!
Would it be too much to examine the history of wolf Reintroduction and write legislation wisely do that wolves are Protected from trophy hunting concurrently
Traps do not discriminate…..or differentiate.
A rare, quite rare, black bobcat caught and killed in trap. And being a rare, and now dead, rare black bobcat there is no chance to pass on the genetic traits. gawd we humans are stupid jerks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/black-bobcat-melanistic-christmas-1.3913761
Now no one has reported this as of yet.
Pres, Obama has designated two new Nat’l Monuments this afternoon. One is the Bears Ears N.M. in Southeastern Utah with 1.35 million acres and the other is Gold Butte N.M. of 300,000 acres near were the infamous Bundy grazes his cattle. This is Great in my opinion. Yea!!!!
The link is: http://www.sltrib.com/home/4675012-155/mike-lee-staffer-says-bears-ears#undefined.gbpl
HALLELUJAH the Bears Ears are saved!!!
THANK YOU Pres. Obama!!!
another article, from the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-utah-bear-ears-20161228-story.html
Cue the republican belly-aching
http://fox13now.com/2016/12/28/utah-republicans-critical-of-bears-ears-national-monument-designation/
Kudos to Russel Begaye!
“Russel Begaye, President of the Navajo Nation, stated he is proud to be both Navajo and American Wednesday. In a statement he wrote about the history of the Bears Ears area, which he said was at one time a sacred refuge for Navajo hiding from a forcible round-up by the U.S. Calvary. He applauded the designation of a national monument in that area, and he said the action comes with the approval of five sovereign tribal nations who petitioned to preserve the land in question.”
The republicans have been belly-aching for years and years with ever since Pres. Clinton protected the Escalante and the Kaiparowits Plateau region in Southern Utah. Good for Pres. Obama. Hope it stands under Trump. One more piece of Southern Utah protected. I believe it was in the 1930’s. There was a bill in Congress to designate over 8,000,000 acres in Southern Utah as a National Park which never passed Congress.
Yea!!!!!!!!!! Am happy on this! How many times have I traveled and hiked in this greater area. It so much deserved the protection. Yea!!!!!!!!!
Wonderful news!!!!
Bears Ears videos:
A good PBS segment from a year ago outlining the conflicts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLkzUjOCUM
Bears Ears via EcoFlight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNcarikwx30
Bears Ears – Wilderness Society
As Isle Royale prepares to add wolves, a look at just how that might be done
https://www.minnpost.com/earth-journal/2016/12/isle-royale-prepares-add-wolves-look-just-how-might-be-done
Where should the wolves come from?
Ideally, from areas near the park: northern Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and north-central Ontario.
How many wolves, and how quickly?
NPS prefers an option that calls for bringing 20 to 30 wolves to the island within a three-year period, with the details arranged to maximize likely breeding success. Another option, to start with a smaller number of wolves initially (say, six) and augment it (by, say, another 15) over a 20-year period as indicated by various monitoring metrics, was considered but judged inferior.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-court-rules-police-shoot-162939226.html
this is not wildlife related, but it is truly sickening. A POS cop can basically walk inside your house and shoot your dog if the dog barks at him/her. Dogs are known for protecting their human family and it’s not abnormal for dogs to bark at strangers entering their home. Cops are known to get away with shooting people’s dogs and nothing happening to them.
Puppycide DataBase: https://puppycidedb.com/
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-canada-cougar-idUKKBN14H1QP
The attack on the ESA is heating up. My initial thought is it will be hard to undo the ESA altogether, but if they succeed there will be a ripple effect throughout environmental regulations.
I do not like the suggestion of letting the state wildlife divisions take over. The state fish and game guys are there mostly for the animals that make money from being hunted. “If it pays it stays”.
http://www.hcn.org/articles/house-republicans-may-try-to-repeal-and-replace-the-endangered-species-act?utm_source=wcn1&utm_medium=email
41 elk drown after falling through ice
http://www.bakercityherald.com/news/4935481-151/41-elk-die-after-falling-through-ice-at
One of our favorite wolf haters comments, “This isn’t good…Could it be that wolves ran them onto the ice?”
At the end of the article, someone who was actually there.
“Ratliff said he inspected the area where the elk had bedded down the previous night, about a quarter mile west of Hewitt Park, and he found no evidence that a predator or person had scared the elk and prompted them to flee onto the reservoir ice.
He said that based on their tracks, the elk had simply gotten up and walked single file toward the reservoir, browsing on plants along the way.”
I should qualify the anti wolf comment as taking place on his FB page.
As we head into the new year, please take time to remember:
Human entitlement, ego, and stupidity march on into a new year: TOURIST BITTEN TRYING TO TAKE SELFIE WITH CROCODILE (Thailand)
Excerpt: “According to the national park chief Kanchit Srinoppawan, the tourists went off trail and ignored a sign warning about crocodiles.”
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/calamity/2017/01/01/tourist-bitten-trying-take-selfie-crocodile/
La Jolla beach: Sea lions are under constant stress from clueless, entitled humans. Their harassing behavior is actually illegal under the Marine Mammal Protection Act…but apparently La Jolla beach has no one who can (or cares to?) enforce it. The town council is asking that the *sea lions* be removed as they pose a “health hazard.”
https://www.facebook.com/andrea.e.hahn/videos/10206286156353345/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE
Wow. So sad. Those poor LaJolla sea lions are constantly being harassed and abused by the entitled residents. There’s video of two women from years ago kicking and climbing on top of a sea lion. I have to cringe looking at the photo.
I also couldn’t believe the recent case of the couple who ‘didn’t know’ that a road in a National Park (in this case, the Grand Canyon) was closed for the winter! Don’t people check these things before they go on vacation? Or maybe they decide to go anyway, road closed or not.
It looks like the poor sea lions are huddling together in fright. Why can’t people keep a respectful distance? Humans seem to be evolving away from any kind of empathy whatsoever.
I doubt seriously those are “entitled residents”, Ida. My guess would be its just another sorry example of too many humans out there, who flock to beaches & national parks, etc. for their annual vacations and don’t give a crap about their negative effect on wild places or wildlife.
Why on earth would you ‘seriously’ doubt it? No, it’s la-tee-da entitled residents as well, I assure you. There are any number of articles about it, and it has been going on for years:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/33684887/call-for-action-on-sea-lion-problem-at-la-jolla-cove
If the definition of taking over an area and kicking out the other residents, human and non-human, is the definition of entitled, and well-to-do businesses and property value concerns, then it certainly fills the usual bill. As we all know, the sewage of the la-tee-da don’t stink.
And yes, I have relatives in the area to answer the next question.
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21575771-environmental-lunacy-europe-fuel-future
For those of you who want to start out 2017 with laughter – I give you Morgan Freeman AND his wonderful narrations on wildlife 🙂
Sometimes a bit of irreverence is fun.
Its 19 below zero here, the propane heater is spending most of its time in “high output” mode ($$) So I was in need of a few good laughs.
Did you watch the video True Facts on Morgan Freeman, Immer? A crack up 🙂
Nancy,
No, I haven’t seen that video. We’re going into the icebox tonight for the next 3-4 days. The forecasts continue to whittle away at predicted temps. Looks like -20 and down for next couple nights. In floor radiant heat/propane generated can’t keep up with that, so wood stove provides comfort.
Kicked around the idea of a wood burning stove a few years ago but worried about the cost to install and the bump in homeowner’s insurance.
Here ya go – Morgan Freeman, part of the True Facts series:
http://nature365.tv/january-3-2017/
Slip slidin’ away…
http://www.npr.org/2017/01/04/505320391/louisiana-history-washes-away-as-sea-levels-rise-land-sinks
“Idaho squares off with animal rights group before 9th Circuit”
“Oral arguments are expected to be scheduled in April in Seattle in an “ag-gag” appeal that has pitted Idaho officials against the Animal Legal Defense Fund in a constitutional battle.
“The case, Animal Legal Defense Fund et al v. Idaho Attorney General Lawrence G. Wasden, landed in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals after U.S. District Court Judge B. Lynn Winmill tossed Idaho’s “ag-gag” statute.”
Continued: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2017/01/idaho-squares-off-with-animal-rights-group-before-9th-circuit/#.WG06fyMrLBI
When is a foothold trap NOT a foothold trap? When it’s enclosed in something else. New Jersey trappers & Fish & Game Council come up with work-around to NJ’s foothold trap ban. Watch the video for an explanation of how the traps were tweaked. No graphic video–only a couple of still shots of trapped animals.
Same ol’ story: “The council is not objective; it represents only special interests, in this case commercial trappers, not the public. The council nominates the director of the Division of Fish and Wildlife, which “serves” the council.”
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/animal_rights_court_ignored_the_law_in_ruling_on_c.html
Jim Brandenburg
http://nature365.tv
Thanks for posting this link Immer. Its on my desktop 🙂
I,too ,have to say a warm thank you to Immer for posting the link.
More than welcome, enjoy! ~ -25° tonight.
28 below at 6 this morning. 10 miles down the road – 38 below. A “stretch” of cold weather is mind numbing but might help curb the pine beetles.
Coyote killing contest this Sat. Jan. 7 – Wyoming Coyote Classic. Contest FB page: https://www.facebook.com/SouthwestWyomingCoyoteCallingContest/
According to Animal Legal Defense Fund & Ctr for Biological Diversity, the Rock Springs BLM office did not issue the requisite permit for the contest.
http://aldf.org/blog/take-action-help-stop-2-coyote-killing-contests-on-federal-land/
Use the ‘act today’ link at the link above for talking points if you want to contact the Rock Springs BLM field office:
Rock Springs Field Office | 280 Highway 191 North | Rock Springs, WY 82901
Phone: 307-352-0256 | Fax: 307-352-0329 | Office hours: 7:45am – 4:30pm, M-F
FB post, yesterday:
Wyoming Coyote Classic
Yesterday at 7:18pm ·
Our last tournament of the year is this weekend Saturday the 7th with checkin on Friday night the 6th at 7:00 . We have had a great turnout this year and we have definitely done our part in controlling the coyote population and helping our big game herds ! Our first tournament we killed 101 dogs !! Our second tournament was over 70 with some ridiculous winds ! I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I’ve never seen or heard of any tournament anywhere bringing in 101 dogs in a one day contest with 38 teams !! We have the best coyote hunters that this state has to offer hands down ! Congrats to all of you that have participated this year ! January is always a tough month but we have the crew to trick those weary dogs !! See you on Friday !
Wow. It’s really hard to believe that there actually are people like this who exist ‘out there’. Hopefully, they are what we call exaggerated fish stories.
“Their” big game herds. I don’t think so. I think I need to visit your bird song post asap, Kathleen. 🙂
It would be nice to think that birdsong alone could transform this mentality (“I am that person that swerves all over the road…because I’m looking for coyotes”)–but I’m not hopeful. Ignorance and bloodlust are a dangerous combo.
Thanks Kathleen for posting this
Day 1 of congress being in session. The fears of many of us is coming to roost. Damn them. We must fight them.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/312582-house-gop-moves-to-ease-federal-land-transfers
Zinke voted for it too. So there we go. 🙁
Then there’s this:
“We want states’ rights and no Federal interference (nor from East Coast busybodies), but we still want Federal disaster relief for wildfires, but no increase in budget.”
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/jan/03/frustrated-jewell-says-maybe-now-that-gop-is-in-co/
Am I correct?
Somewhat related:
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2017/01/alabama_ag_luther_strange_urge.html#incart_river_home
…–read the comments at the bottom if you can…its a good explanation of the politics if you get his hints
Happy National Bird Day! You bird lovers will enjoy this:
http://store.musicofnature.com/products/pure-nature/birds-and-brooks/
How fortunate we are to share their world.
Yes. I always love the wood thrush song. I have one in the woods behind my house who sings over the summer. Beautiful!
Lucky you! IMO, no other bird can touch the eastern wood thrush for a song so beautiful it can bring tears to one’s eyes. Here’s what HD Thoreau had to say: http://birdnote.org/show/henry-david-thoreau-and-wood-thrush
Here in the West we hear Swainson’s thrush and, of course, the beloved robin.
Thanks, and don’t I know it, how lucky I am. I usually hear one singing on quiet evenings during the summer, and it is remarkable. Much preferred to the drone of road noise, I can assure you! I worry about the disappearance of their habitat, both when they migrate and their summer ranges.
As far as that repulsive coyote hunt, I don’t know what to say. I have nothing but contempt for those who do not respect nor even comprehend the sanctity of life, other than their own kind, if that. I don’t owe them any kind of respect simply because they are hyoooomaaaaan, and I make no apologies for my opinion. I hope that those ugly pickup trucks and gruesome photos are only photoshopped.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/sourcing-of-wood-pellets-in-us-could-destroy-forests-say-critics-1.2927028
Kathleen
I found the photo of the Coyote grabbing the Pheasant interesting. When a bird wants to fly it usually has both wings up then down to create lift. I think the pheasant in this scene has a damaged wing. Could it have been shot?
Interesting observation, and one that wouldn’t have occurred to me. One would think that an animal who can fly could get away from an animal who can’t…in deep snow.
House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Rob Bishop (R-UT) recently told a media outlet that he wants to use his position to “repeal and replace” the Endangered Species Act.
This bedrock conservation law has helped save more than two hundred species from extinction since its passage in 1973 and is supported by 9 out of 10 U.S. voters. It has a 99 percent success rate at preventing the extinction of listed species and is the benchmark by which other countries gauge their conservation efforts. It does not need to be repealed, weakened, or in any way changed by Representative Bishop and the House GOP.
Please sign our petition asking Representative Bishop to keep his hands off of the Endangered Species Act.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/do-not-repeal-and-replace?mailing_id=36415&source=s.icn.em.cr&%3Br_by=11087978&r_by=550990
Thank you,
Mitch Merry
Digital Director
Endangered Species Coalition
You know Louise, we knew this was coming if Trump got in along with a republican house and senate.
Now this:
https://thinkprogress.org/house-officially-says-parks-have-no-value-3e5c588867fd#.ajg634q2t
We have to find a way to fight them every step of the way.
an op-ed written by Dr. Adrian Treves re: Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission’s decision to delist wolves and proposed state legislation.
http://bit.ly/1Pzixwy
Check it out Yvette:
https://www.indivisibleguide.com/
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/what-is-the-indivisible-guide-847974467669
Thanks Nancy. I’ve already been all over this. It’s in my files and printed and in my messenger bag.
I’m sure you’ve already read the Intelligence Report that was released Friday. We have entered a different realm in America.
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0838-rare-leopardess-back-from-the-dead-in-miracle-after-being-snared-by-poachers/
And on the same page, this horrible abuse to wildlife by sick, ignorant humans:
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0834-bear-deliberately-chased-by-trucks-and-run-over-then-battered-to-death-with-crowbar/
Added thoughts on coyote hunting. They seem to use a lot of calls that imitate small mammals in distress, in addition this is in combination with activated small fur and feather decoys. Then when they kill a Coyote they claim they are helping the big game populations???
Because coyotes can bring down larger prey when they work cooperatively, and because coyotes can also prey on ungulate fawns and calves. E.g., see: https://www.facebook.com/CoyoteContest/photos/br.AbrbpHkCVl4b-gnoC14QRcwL-A45GT986zIHJ6MXfkOUfQ7F8gnTNZdUnKoGjF4WszxYIk-kOMH4tieLtPWxyvb9v8924S_Ru4RXGokSSIJ3Jw-aFe0X8nIt7SHh-vMKBE0hfGByAu77oF19qbziOoabYSl-5Em7ybBKhqcdRx6HVLv6sKYoOgFl7QNIS9wjcIiJf5N_mURqQpAN6FysScrN/1198146010196879/?type=3&theater
And because bloodlust and hatred of predators doesn’t have to make sense.
Thank God I’m not on Facebook and have no plans to ever be.
Well, one more lawsuit for the BLM I guess. It’s great to not have to enforce permitting, but just wait until an environmentalist wants to hold some kind of meeting, and they won’t allow it, or will throw up every roadblock imaginable. Scumbags!
Who needs Russia to ‘undermine American democracy’ when the conservatives and others have been doing it for years? lol What a joke.
“Only by selling the bile can I maintain the business,” Kim says. “So it hurts, it hurts me. I don’t even look at them when they’re being slaughtered. I feel really sad. I mean, you’re not a human being if you’re not sad about it.”
“While moon bear mascot “Bandabi” glides his way down animated mountains in promo videos, the inspirations for Bandabi spend their days banging their heads against their cages”
http://www.npr.org/2017/01/09/508892461/bears-that-inspired-adorable-korean-paralympic-mascot-live-in-caged-captivity
Animals Asia does fantastic work on this issue:
https://www.animalsasia.org/us/our-work/end-bear-bile-farming/ (includes video)
including maintaining sanctuaries for bears rescued from the bile trade (click on the Vietnam sanctuary for photo–these precious bears are livin’ the good life at last!):
https://www.animalsasia.org/us/our-work/end-bear-bile-farming/what-we-do/bear-sanctuaries/
This is too sweet: “Watch Tuffy jump for joy in his first days outside – after being rescued from a bear bile farm where he’d spent years of torture in a tiny cage.”
https://www.animalsasia.org/us/media/news/news-archive/video-freed-from-a-bile-farm-is-this-the-happiest-bear-ever.html
From Salon: “Searching for answers: How to understand the morality of hunting: Philosophy can help clarify and evaluate arguments about hunting”
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/08/hunting-for-answers-how-to-understand-the-morality-of-hunting_partner/
I got to the word ‘therapeutic’ and could read no further. Hunting is/was for food purposes; and that is the only justifiable reason for it. It is less needed today,but yet we still have some biological holdover from the past. To say that animal populations ‘need’ hunting is the ultimate in rationalization and self-delusion.
“To say that animal populations ‘need’ hunting is the ultimate in rationalization and self-delusion.”
Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, eh?
Well, I don’t think it is always true. And when it is, it is because of our overwhelming priorities, not real need as in the grand scheme of things. Wildlife did just fine until we came along. Certainly, taking the biggest elk in 43 years (from the article that Kathleen posted) isn’t very ‘therapeutic’ to a herd. Taking the biggest and best is opposite of what predators do, and weakens the herd.
Which leads me to this. How does this stuff get published, and in the so-called progressive media, no less (the Salon article)? I take extreme issue with this kind of thinking:
“But if inflicting unwanted harm is necessarily wrong, then the source of the harm is irrelevant. Logically, anyone who commits to this position should also oppose predation among animals.”
??? How so? This is an example of convenient-think. Predators have no other way; they kill to eat or to defend themselves – and nature has designed it so that they are not always successful, and do not require a kill every day. Predators do not kill for trophies, and do not need an endless supply of trophies either. Humans do, and also evermore technological advantages. Humans are not solely designed for nor dependent upon meat only.
It’s hypocritical to always have the standpoint that we are more advanced than other creatures only when it suits us.
If it’s antlers this man want, there’s nothing more beautiful than the shed kind. I have one on my mantel. No killing required either!
Ida, I do get that for some hunters it’s a competitive sport instead of being alone with nature (or the creation if one likes) and maybe scoring some meat. But there really are some species where we need to get someone out there, and I actually do feel microscopically useful in reducing the evil deer near me – they are destroying the land. So I find it’s easy enough to stick to many other species, where we don’t really need control. Woodcock might be a good example, though it could be argued that those hunters are the cause of forest near me being managed in a way that is good for them, and several other species using the same types of habitat (about 25K hunters, 100K birds killed per year – MI has the most I think, I’d never do it). Maybe bobcat is better, but could be my ignorance – allot of hunter would never imagine wanting to hunt them, so that’s a better target. I’m more sure about Martin and Fisher up north maybe. It’s not like they are overpopulating from what I know – they are low density everywhere I’ve ever been. Most people hardly know these animals exist (they’ve certainly never seen one), they are shocked to think there are mink everywhere (my sympathies) and they’ve never heard that people trap them for tiny sums of money.
Summary: Some of the fruit hangs waist high, others are so high up there, I can’t even see if it’s worth going after.
Since the election I take a lot of these progressive publications with a huge grain of salt now. Salon, Politico, Daily Beast, etc. I can no longer read. WaPo and HuffPo still have the occasionally redeeming article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-wells/the-bloody-business-of-co_b_13952304.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/health-science/bald-eagles-feed-cat-to-eaglets/2016/04/29/8ccb967e-0e0b-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_video.html
That’s a first for me. I’ve watched many eagles’ nests over the years, and have seen fish (lots!), squirrels, rabbits, and other birds brought home to feed Junior, but never a cat. Yet another good reason that companion cats belong safely inside the house!
yah, I kind of took that to be a feral cat of which there is an overabundance and this is a perfect way to thin the herd along with coyotes and foxes
The Decorah eagles (webcam) had a dead cat in the nest a couple of years ago. There is a farm within sight of the nest. It probably was a barn cat.
My old dog, who passed last year, use to get really upset (barking & growing) when eagles would land nearby on the hillside or power pole. My little dog picked up the habit, especially when hawks come around (I’ve got free range chickens)
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/09/508919216/iconic-sequoia-tunnel-tree-brought-down-by-california-storm
so, will it be allowed to rot & provide habitat for many species or moved away due to wildfire concerns?
They may decide to have commemorative wall clocks & pencil holders made from the wood………
Today (1/10) is National Save the Eagles Day. A few posts up, JEFF E posted video of eagles hauling a dead cat to their nest. I just stumbled upon this dramatic footage of an eagle grabbing an osprey chick out of the nest.
http://www.audubon.org/news/this-rare-video-bald-eagle-attacking-osprey-nest-incredible-display-speed-and
Maybe this has been posted already, but just in case: Southwest Florida live eagle cam with one eaglet, 10 days old today: http://www.dickpritchettrealestate.com/eagle-feed.html
Background on the two eggs–the other one determined to be not viable: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/harriet-the-eagles-second-egg-likely-wont-hatch/384338040
Here’s some more info on eagles.
http://www.audubon.org/news/will-bald-eagle-eat-your-outdoor-cat
To wildlife, prey is prey. Because many of us live in ‘sanitized’ landscapes, it can be shocking, but it should not be. Cats and dogs should not be allowed to roam outside, for many reasons; predators, but probably the most dangerous thing is automobiles and being hit by a car.
There used to be a misconception that domestic cats are ‘wild’, and so owners let them out.
Does anyone know if the cat was scavenged and already dead perhaps from being hit by a car? Or do eagles only eat live prey?
“Black Diamond founder: Outdoor retail show should leave Utah”
Excerpt: “A powerful outdoor recreation industry executive said Tuesday the world’s largest outdoor retail show going on this week in Salt Lake City should leave Utah if the state’s top political leaders continue what he calls an assault on public lands. … ‘Utah is really ground zero for the worst public lands policies,’ he said.”
http://missoulian.com/news/national/black-diamond-founder-outdoor-retail-show-should-leave-utah/article_7441f411-fa32-53bf-afb1-06e4e5599e63.html
Search “rusty patch bumble bee” if you want to read about them being listed as endangered under ESA. Many articles, mostly identical. Xerces Society is a good place to learn more about this and other species:
http://www.xerces.org/rusty-patched-bumble-bee/
People visiting Dumfries and Galloway to see the region’s red kites have contributed over £8.2m to the local economy, a new report has found.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/rspb-news/news/435866-tourists-spend-x00a382m-in-dumfries-and-galloway-after-travelling-to-see-red-kites?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=News
Calum Murray RSPB Scotland Community Liaison Officer, said: “The re-introduction of red kites in Dumfries and Galloway has been a massive conservation success story, and we now have over 100 pairs breeding across the region.
“But this survey clearly demonstrates how nature can bring economic benefits to communities as well. Tourists are visiting the Galloway Kite Trail from all over the UK, and many are coming here specifically to see our amazing red kites, as well as the other wildlife this region is rightly renowned for.
The survey also found that almost 70% of respondents had travelled to the area from outside Scotland, with two thirds visiting Dumfries and Galloway for the first time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-38558203
Galloway red kite trail’s value soars
Nightmare in New Zealand. “Behind New Zealand’s plan to purge all wild pests: The country is gearing up to get rid of rats, possums, stoats and other invasive predators by 2050. Is it a pipe dream?”
http://www.nature.com/news/behind-new-zealand-s-wild-plan-to-purge-all-pests-1.21272
It’s the same old story over and over and over…animals suffer for the hubris of humans. Next up, gene editing to wipe out species. What could possibly go wrong?!?
Biting my tongue on that one. 😉
So Kathleen, would you rather have the continued decline of native species that may end up being extirpated from New Zealand if nothing is done or help their recovery. Of course, one could blame humans for their past mistakes of introducing them but that does nothing to solve the problem.
Why is it OK to remove invasive plant species that can have negative effects to native plants but when a plan to remove invasive, non-native animals for the benefits of native species becomes a negative action? I leave my emotions out of the equation and support New Zealands’ efforts.
Gary, I’m someone who understands full well the importance of intact native ecosystems and the threats they’re under from proliferating nonnative species. I continue to restore my own property from virulent exotic weeds, and the land (while still recovering) has become a haven for all sorts of birds, mammals, and reptiles. But weeds aren’t sentient and don’t suffer; animals are sentient and do suffer whether they’re native or nonnative. That isn’t an ’emotional’ response, that is a fact, and the suffering of others is an ethical concern. The poisons often used, anti-coagulants, cause tremendous suffering.
If human animals learned from our mistakes and our meddling, nonhuman animals wouldn’t have to continue suffering, but that isn’t the case. And human priorities still prevail over restoration efforts even as drastic as New Zealand’s–deer and pigs, both introduced nonnatives, aren’t the target of eradication efforts because they are “game animals,” the targets of human sport hunters. So let’s kill the ones we don’t want AND kill the ones we DO want. Humans are killing machines.
I don’t know what the answer is to a problem like New Zealand’s, but I’m not going to sit back and let humans off the hook time after time without commenting on our lack of humility in our relationship with nature, nor am I going to remain silent about nonhuman animal suffering even when it’s in the service of something valuable, like intact native ecosystems.
🙂 Sorry to have butt in, but I couldn’t help it. To suggest that people suppress their ’emotion’ about killing sentient beings was too much. A lot of people buy into this hook, line and sinker. It does have ethical implications, and it must not be ignored. I noticed the article extolled the ‘virtues’ of a nonpoisonous ‘skull-crushing piston’ trap. Who would not be repulsed by that.
Kathleen, having worked for the BLM as a forester, I know the importance of restoring native ecosystems as well and I appreciate your efforts on your property.
New Zealand has lost over 50% of it’s native animal species, mainly due to the introduced invasive species from the past. Unless you know otherwise, to reverse this trend will take some unfortunate killing of these introduced species. The deer and pigs you mentioned they are not targeting are game animals and are thus available for hunters to harvest, thus I presume that their populations can be adequately controlled and therefore they are not targeting them.
As for sentient animals being killed or abused by humans, I presume you do not eat nor drink any animal products nor kill them for other reasons. Cattle being crowded into semis for slaughter, chickens living their entire lives in cages, and pigs wallowing in filth to name just a few examples of animal suffering.
I work very hard at not being a hypocrite, and respecting wildlife, but when I hear something under my house knawing on my walls and foundation, the D-Con comes out its package. Not exactly apples to apples but in essentially New Zealand is attempting to protect their native homeland before it’s destroyed and that is a good thing.
“I presume you do not eat nor drink any animal products nor kill them for other reasons.”
That’s correct, Gary–we’re vegans. The only leather left in our closets is a few pairs of old boots from pre-vegan days. When our house was built 14 years ago, mice were built into it and reproduced; we trapped just under 200 of the little boogers in Havahart live traps over a number of mostly-sleepless months before we had evicted all of them. We laugh about that now!
It’s funny, I don’t use chemical on my lawn either and have been rewarded with much wildlife (that’s where I got the shed antlers), lots of birds, and ‘weeds’ which I find to be valuable wildflowers and plants. I can’t get bittersweet to grow (I usually have to look for it,and when I do…), I do have some Queen Anne’s lace but I use it in flower arrangements, and the knotweed seems to have run its cycle and not as prominent. I’m planning to plant more native plants for bees (I don’t think I have the rusty patch bumbler, I checked!) 😉
People need to have patience when it comes to these things. Invasives won’t disappear overnight – it took a long time for this much destruction. I don’t have mice (don’t see evidence of them). I do have a Havahart trap, but it doesn’t seem to have been used.
Any creature that does get into my house, I will capture and release outside if I can – bees, spiders, snakes, birds, etc.
Yes, I do not eat red meat and certainly do not wear animal fur or skin as clothing. But for those people who do eat meat, they have a right to expect that the animals are treated as humanely as possible. Like hunting, food is a necessity, and there is equivalence with other creatures in the wild.
It isn’t the same thing as wanton killing for trophies, or to make more money from your business, or the first go-to option for an animal considered a pest simply for unknowingly interfering with human activities.
I truly don’t think at this point we can get rid of all invasive species, it’s too late for that. Controlling and managing – yes. Poisoning the water supplies to remove non-native and invasive fish and aquatic creatures kills everything. I do like that fishermen are catching them, tho, although it is slower. It will take time – there is no quick fix.
I forgot – I have had red squirrels and chipmunk or two in my garage, but they don’t seem to be a problem.
I have counted five different birds of prey – Cooper’s Hawk, Sharp-Shinned, Red-tail, and a fierce little kestrel in the yard, and osprey, turkey vulture, and bald eagles seen overhead. They may take care of any mice!
“But for those people who do eat meat, they have a right to expect that the animals are treated as humanely as possible.”
If they purchase industrially factory farmed meat–i.e., the vast majority of all supermarket meat and meat products–humane treatment is nonexistent for sentient beings who are considered nothing more than production units. Standard industry practices are heinously cruel and sadistic abuse is rampant. If you can bear to look:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512203/Animal-rights-activists-film-horrific-abuse-pigs-Tyson-farm.html
And many more undercover investigations here: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/investigations
Gary,
D-Con kills a lot more than rodents. Please reconsider your use of rodenticides.
https://www.nps.gov/samo/learn/management/rodenticides.htm
If you google “Santa Monica Mountains rodenticide” you will find many sad stories about bobcats, foxes, and mountain lions killed or severely compromised due to their exposure to rodenticides.
Raptors are the Solution (RATS)
http://www.raptorsarethesolution.org/
Ida, sounds like you have a raptor hit squad on standby (flyby).
I do! lol 2016 was the first year I’ve seen them on a regular basis. Certain ones the birds clear out when they appear (Coopers or Sharpies); others, I think the red-tail, they don’t seem to notice. That kestrel is like a bullet.
I forgot owls too. 🙂
LOL yes, it’s my own RAF (Raptor Air Force). I wondered why I’m seeing them more regularly (I think there’s a large nest too, in a nearby tree). My songbirds are still a very health population too, all the usual suspects. 🙂
I stopped treating my lawn at least 3 years ago, and only use an organic fertilizer for the lawn (Espoma).
For those interested, Audubon/Cornell’s Great Backyard Bird Count is coming up Feb. 17-20:
http://gbbc.birdcount.org/
Gary, a reminder of how things progress when we humans start solving the problems we caused by introduction (intentional or not) of invasive species.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/30307/messing-mother-nature-macquarie-island-ecosystem
Other than that, I can’t resist copying a statement from the article Kathleen posted.
“People are really willing to kill for conservation. It’s kind of a national pastime.”
Don’t we know?!
“Next up, gene editing to wipe out species. What could possibly go wrong?!?”
Let fear of new things be your guide – what could go wrong? I actually have some hope that siRNAs in food for lamprey larva has chances. You have to design it to be specific to just the target species – we aren’t idiots. We are supplying sterile males already in the St. Marys, and are expanding that effort.
There’s a difference between fear of anything new and approaching with caution. No, we’re not idiots, but we need keep aware that we don’t know everything and a sense of humility.
Here’s one ‘mistake’ that failed. Hopefully our Monarchs will recover as well. Back to the drawing board, I guess!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey-gillam/new-research-shows-failin_b_14003604.html
You are talking like resistance was not predicted.
“Decision on grizzlies delayed; 100+ killed over two years”
http://missoulian.com/news/national/decision-on-grizzlies-delayed-killed-over-years/article_73079d75-b17d-5f7e-99c8-fbf8f9d72639.html
“A Montana bowhunter is believed to have taken the largest elk recorded in the country in 48 years”:
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/bowhunter-bags-record-breaking-elk-in-montana/article_6772bbc1-73f6-5c09-8164-1e544fe917b6.html
Kill big animals! Win prizes! Name in record book! Pathetic.
If spending probably countless hunting days in wet and cold weather along with sighting in a bow to make sure the exact spot is hit and the emphasis on the importance of keeping our public lands public, count me in as pathetic.
His one arrow put an end to the elks life with very little suffering and just because one does not believe in killing wildlife, does not make it pathetic.
New Look at Rivers Reveals The Toll of Human Activity
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/new_look_at_rivers_reveals_toll_of_human_activity_yellowstone_river/3067/
That a non-native parasite somehow got into a river may seem like an unremarkable occurrence. But a new, expansive model of gravel-bed river systems in mountainous areas, such as the Yellowstone, depicts a more complex scenario in which a host of human activities combine to degrade river systems and render them more vulnerable to destructive outside influences such as parasites. This body of research — 40 years in the making, but much of it summed up in a recent paper — rewrites the understanding of the ecological dynamics of these rivers. And it casts a harsh light on human river valley activities such as homebuilding, dam construction, irrigation, and channelization that may be slowly choking highly dynamic river systems — and the biodiversity that depends on them — to death.
May I say something? Humans’ past mistakes are one thing; but we make mistakes on top of mistakes and then more mistakes build on the other mistakes, until we realize we were wrong all along. In all of our planning, we don’t factor in that we could make a mistake – just blunder on ahead.
The gist of this article is, like here in the US, trying to stop agricultural losses. It says nothing about removing the invasive species of livestock and domestic pets. Also, removing invasive plants is a lot different than harming sentient beings, and a lot of the time, the cure for removing invasive plants with herbicides is worse than the disease for harming the environment, and is futile anyway.
This article is filled with bravado, and I wonder how far it will get.
So rather than relegating our ‘mistakes’ (and that is a rather euphemistic term because some are pretty huge – like wiping out bison and wolves, improper disposal of nuclear waste to name only a few) to the past, we really need to keep them in our present minds to that we try to be aware of not repeating them or making new ones, which will help. Genetic tinkering could present many opportunities for ‘mistakes’, and should be approached with caution.
You reminded me of an article I read recently that questioned whether in some cases we ought to give up the battle of fighting invasives. It all comes down to that we keep the invasives we like and want to destroy the ones we don’t like anyway. There’s got to be a better solution than that.
“Cheney Introduces Bill to Delist Gray Wolf in Wyoming”
Read More: http://k2radio.com/cheney-introduces-bill-to-delist-gray-wolf-in-wyoming/?trackback=tsmclip
Well, I hope her state’s conservation plan is now better than ‘shoot on sight’ plan WY has traditionally held.
From the HCN:
http://www.hcn.org/articles/obama-close-the-wolf-killer-loophole
Another year of slaughter:
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/montana/yellowstone-begins-bison-capture-slaughter-to-reduce-herd/265210884
interesting.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/12/jane-fonda-justin-trudeau-environment-canada-pipeline
Yellowstone Wolves
http://www.idahostatesman.com/outdoors/playing-outdoors/article126097184.html
I simply cannot imagine why more isn’t done to protect the Park’s collared wolves. If there are decent hunters out there, why don’t they speak out against this?
Killing collared wolves says that hunters don’t respect the Park, the visitors, the science, and least of all, the wildlife! It is legal to hunt wolves in the surrounding states, but why can’t hunters take the high road and behave honorably, and pass on shooting a wolf when they see a collar? People shouldn’t be surprised that their is animosity in cases like this.
How McKittrick got away with it just boggles my mind. I didn’t know the entire story. How on earth did Utah get a section of their state delisted for wolves when they don’t have any documented wolves? How were they able to suspend ESA protection when it is a part of the wolf’s range, and why has the USF&W allowed it? Something is definitely rotten here.
I used to think that Idaho was the worst state in the union for wildlife, now I realize it is Utah.
that should read – ‘people shouldn’t be surprised that there is animosity in cases like this’. Nobody ever calls them on it, and wildlife advocates and environmentalists are always criticized and expected to cater to them, just like the government does. It hasn’t helped, and in fact makes the situation worse – as we can see.
http://www.startribune.com/based-on-2016-harvest-state-s-deer-herd-appears-to-be-growing/410595495/
Buck kill up 19% in the north of MN, where the most wolves are. Up only 2% in the south. It’s impossible. Just joking, there are proximal causes. But wolves don’t impress me as much as weather, and shooting a few less does when deer are down.
Up here in the upper arrowhead, we have about two feet of snow on the ground. Winter came in slow, but has hit back pretty hard. -32° this morning, though not abnormal up here, was colder than anything last year. We’re expecting a bit of a warmup within a week, with the possibility of rain next week. That would be a double whammy for deer in that a soaking rain followed by cold will help burn those fat reserves a bit quicker, and allow the snow to crust up. So far the deer have been able to avoid wolves fairly easily…
That sounds like my winter here, Immer. At least 2 feet of snow in the yard. My 4 foot yard fence looks like its only a couple of feet high now. I haven’t seen any mule deer in weeks (since the snow started piling up) although they normally cycle through the property in the winter, about every other week.
I suspect they are taking advantage of the “free” feed on the ranch about a mile down the road.
Last year, 75 acres or so of sagebrush, was mowed down and now around 150 head of cattle are being fed (hayed) there for the winter.
Last night in the woods with the full moon was really something. Ya gotta love winter, or you live in Florida.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/three-lions-poisoned-beheaded-chopped-9612980
sickening
http://wfpl.org/new-discovery-could-provide-key-to-tracking-spread-of-deadly-bat-disease/
http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2017/01/post_55.html
Political shenanigans in Oregon, trying to ease up on their promises to curtail gill net commercial salmon fishing on the Columbia. Pretty good review of the situation. The morel brandisher thinks a sport caught salmon is worth several times what a commercial caught salmon is to the economy, so the only problem to solve is how to ease into it, which isn’t that hard. I’m saying there should be no commercial salmon fishing in the Columbia system at all, in any tributary, by any method.